Missing functionality and bugs

TomTom
edited April 2013 in Support and Feedback

Hi Mike,

First again a big praise for this amazing app.
Playing a lot with the FCB1010, I did encounter a few bugs/thing i would love to see changed.

MIDI request: Cancel currect record and record again. Using "selected track" in this binding complicates things a lot, unless the selected track setting is changed as discussed in discussion "Last loop recorded isn't automatically the Selected Loop". This would be a live saver on stage, if the recording just stops, deletes itself, and starts recording again at the beginning of the next loop. I was actually really suprised this isn't in there yet.

With: "toggle record, mute, then start recording next track" The next track starts recording after the count in of 1 loop, making it unusable. Maybe make 2 seperate bindings. One with count in, and 1 immediately.

And maybe a 3th version: toggle record, mute, then start recording next track withouth stopping currect recording. (recording 3 one shot loops in a row without playback is now impossible)

Maybe more user friendly would be: toggle record, select next track, after recording mute recorded track. This will allow multiple one shot loops too. Also this makes programming the "cancel record and rerecord" function in more logical.

A count in of 1 bar/ 4 (metronome) ticks would be very nice. I often have loops that are 8 or 16 bars, and letting the drum play for half a minute before my loop starts to record is not very charming. I know i can use the count in quantize, but this gives bugs:
I have a drum loop which is 2 bars. I start, let 1 bar pass, i press record using the quantize of 1 bar. After recording 4 bars, the light indicator jumps to somewhere halfway on the circle. Meaning when i mute this track using count in/out mute, it stops playing halfway the loop.

Here is a simplified example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d58tf-T40Gk

The tiny fade in/outs on every loop is fatal when i play fast. I wish this could be adjustable in time, or just an on off switch. Right now i am turning my drumjam loop off pitch to minimize the cut off in guitar playing but this cancels out a session start tap in with precision timing while playing.

All 3 loops played here miss the first punch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP4v3s7NSy4

A second solution could be, an adjustable beginning of the loop. Having a slider "start record beginning time adjustment" with milisecond adjustment to say up to 0.5 seconds. Some of my loops even start just a tiny bit more early than the official first beat of the loop, making them completely lose their first punch in right now.

Comments

  • The tiny fade in/outs at the start of each loop are probably implemented to avoid clicks on non-zero crossings of the waveform. I'm not a fan of that solution, and would prefer not to hear the dip or the clicks so I hope a technique can be developed that avoids both through some amazing computational process.

  • Cheers for this @Tom; I'll check this out shortly.

  • Update:

    Cancel currect record and record again

    I've changed the behaviour of "Rerecord" to perform this action while recording; to be honest, it should've been that way from the start, but was an oversight on my part.

    With: "toggle record, mute, then start recording next track" The next track starts recording after the count in of 1 loop, making it unusable. Maybe make 2 seperate bindings. One with count in, and 1 immediately.

    I've revised this one and eliminated the second count-in.

    And maybe a 3th version: toggle record, mute, then start recording next track withouth stopping currect recording. (recording 3 one shot loops in a row without playback is now impossible)
    Maybe more user friendly would be: toggle record, select next track, after recording mute recorded track. This will allow multiple one shot loops too. Also this makes programming the "cancel record and rerecord" function in more logical.

    I didn't quite understand these ones - could you give some examples of use?

    i can use the count in quantize, but this gives bugs: I have a drum loop which is 2 bars. I start, let 1 bar pass, i press record using the quantize of 1 bar. After recording 4 bars, the light indicator jumps to somewhere halfway on the circle. Meaning when i mute this track using count in/out mute, it stops playing halfway the loop.

    Actually, that's not a bug, but a result of loop cycle interaction. If you start recording a 4 bar loop halfway through a 2 bar loop, then if on record end the new 4 bar loop snapped to start at 12 o'clock, then it would've shifted 1 bar against the 2 bar loop. If those two loops interacted melodically, then that would sound awful =)

    The tiny fade in/outs on every loop...

    I've revised the crossfade duration to make it shorter.

  • Actually, that's not a bug, but a result of loop cycle interaction. If you start recording a >4 bar loop halfway through a 2 bar loop, then if on record end the new 4 bar loop >snapped to start at 12 o'clock, then it would've shifted 1 bar against the 2 bar loop. If >those two loops interacted melodically, then that would sound awful =)

    @michael, I don't understand what you're saying here. Actually, I think the whole behavior with loops of different lengths is a bit wacky. I think it's a consequence of all the loops playing all the time, and just being muted/unmuted. Can you or someone else shed some light on why you chose this design? I don't mean to criticize, I just want to know your thinking so I can try to approach Loopy with your thought process in mind.

  • edited May 2013

    I chose to link the loops together in order to preserve their relationships ('cos otherwise they could start at any old time and be out of sync with each other). For me, it's the intuitive decision, and it facilities things like upbeats and other musical techniques that wouldn't be possible otherwise. If loops always started when you tapped them, even if they synced to the nearest bar, there'd be more pressure on the user to get timing right.

    But this isn't really a design decision so much as the obvious (to me) default, plus the results of not having any requests to the contrary (except for one-shot samples, which I may do some time). If you'd like to see something else, then hit me! I'm pretty responsive to ideas.

  • TomTom
    edited May 2013

    And maybe a 3th version: toggle record, mute, then start recording next track without stopping current recording. (recording 3 one shot loops in a row without playback is now impossible)

    Maybe more user friendly would be: toggle record, select next track, after recording mute recorded track. This will allow multiple one shot loops too. Also this makes programming the "cancel record and rerecord" function in more logical.

    I didn't quite understand these ones - could you give some examples of use?

    What i want to achieve is to be able to: record loop nr1. After recording there is no playback, and immediately loop 2 starts recording. Again no playback, and loop nr3 starts recording.

    When i think of it now, a per loop setting of playback after record would be the least confusing. Then i can just pre-set the loop behavior, and press loop 1 to record, then while recording I press loop nr.2, so that when the loop is at "zero" the first 1 stops and the second starts recording.

    Or... Make an extra midi binding "toggle mute", that does not stop the recording and starts playing back when i press it while the loop is recording. But instead stops the recording at the loop "zero", and actually mutes after recording. Something like "toggle mute after quantize?" The downside for this one is more footswitch presses. I will have to stop the current loop, and press record for the second loop, while playing/recording.

    Per loop settings seems to be an outcome for more. Having adjustable fade ins/outs per loop, and the setting "instant playback after record" would be well... great.

    See here the problem i have with the count in quantize.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG9I9mk0D7c

  • edited May 2013

    @Tom, take a look at this video at around the 3 min. mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoKF0gbW6Ko


    Is that the behavior you're looking for? If so, I second that nomination!

  • TomTom
    edited May 2013

    Yep yep, thats it!

    I also love the possibility of switching between the loops with just 1 button. The tapdance with switching loops on the fcb1010 while playing solo's is confusing sometimes. But then, i read that people requested a chorus/verse option already.

    My opinion would be, a per loop selection of which groups it belongs to, and being able to have many, say 10 groups. Then having MIDI bindings to mute/unmute these groups, dependant of having audio in the loop already (so that empty loops don't start recording already)

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