Ambient Electronic Music

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  • Oh and Syrupcore... I most definitely would trim beginning or end of loops live, on the fly. I would also adjust internal loop volume fade ins/outs live, if it were capable.... Sorry you don't see it's creative potential.

  • Andynan,

    Your early posts weren't very constructive....I'm not sure what kind of respnses you expected when you came out with those rants. It took a while to find out what your problem was.

    Anyway, back to the music...

    Sorry, I've never used the nlog synth. Can your crazy arpeggio be tied to a bpm somehow? Or can you have this part repeat hands free whilst you get in and out of record mode of Loopy (without synch)on the down beats of your arp?

    You said earlier that the bpm stuff is okay but the freer stuff (animoog etc) is not. Does twisting the start point help at all or are you still getting extra gaps or glitches?

    The more you describe your goals, the more it sounds to me that a sampler would be more useful as a performance instrument and you wouldn't have to transfer your sounds to loopy.

    I'm going to get the S4 too, by the way, to play stuff I want to pre-produce and not necessarily create 'live'.

    Cheers

  • Stjambience- arpeggios can't be tied to a bpm. There is always a glitch where I stop/start the loop, like a slight skip. Twisting doesnt help, it only moves the glitch around. the glitch occurs where the end of the sample connects to the beginning. its the "splice" point. back when i used actual tape this was very tedious task to find the exact splice point to avoid the "skip". Using Moog's Filtatron, I can fine tune the beginning and end of a looping sample to match beats where the loop splices the end to the beginning. But Filtatron only plays with one sample.

    I think Loopy could be THE right tool here. It just needs to add the "trim" function to that little round menu with pan,volume, reverse, and decay. Just have two little handles on the 12oclock of the track circle... Drag one counter clockwise (like you do with pan or volume) to trim the end of the loop as needed, then drag the other handle clockwise to trim the beginning of loop. Easy deal. Same for a fader. Drag fader counterclockwise to create a fade of any desired length to end of loop, drag fader clockwise to fade beginning of loop.
    Basic, easy, and very useful.
    Add speed adjustment to each individual track, and Loopy is a very powerful performance tool.

    Not sure why this suggestion is met with so much resistance from Developer and forum. Seems like a no brainer.

    A sampler doesn't repeat multiple sampled loops indefinitely, which is why Loopy would be better with the minor enhancements I am suggesting.

    Anyways thanks for the lead on s4... It's cool.

    Cheers.

  • Hey, i just got S4 too, looking forward to getting my own sounds on there. It looks like it would play a loop indefinitely in trigger mode...but I only had a really quick look.

    Sorry about the timing issues...I'm not much help here as I'm almost always in non synch mode. One thing I do (just remembered) that can avoid the awkward end/start point is to always go into overdub mode after record, even if I don't want to overdub. It seems to make the transition smoother (especially if i'm using a delay or reverb pedal, the trails don't suddenly disappear and start again). This might have nothing to do with you, of course, but maybe worth a try. IIRC I think there might be a tiny buffer at the start/end point of each loop. Again, I could be wrong.

    Kudos for cutting real tape btw :)

  • @Andynan - "Any advice on how to get an exact loop length into Loopy?"

    Import via audiopaste works pretty well with pre-edited loops. Press and hold an empty loop, hit import, make sure the "fit loop to time" setting is off. If you want a nice crossfade, you'll have to use the sample editor of Beatmaker2 - it's the only thing out there that does it right now. In most live looping situations the transitions don't matter to people, they are either masked by rhythmic or other musical events or become a part of the rhythm. I use loopy for ambient soundscape stuff and you have to decide how you are going to deal with the loop seams - embrace it, fight it, mask it, whatever. One real asset for composition is loopy's ability to slowly fade in and out loops as they are muted or activated. I agree a crossfade within the loop itself would be fantastic, but I doubt it's a priority for them because most users don't see it as a problem. Still, would be very cool. Anyway, try the import rather than recording directly if you want more control over the loop length.

  • To be clear, no one is against loop trimming within loopy. Been requested before and many people would like to see it happen one day!

    Because I had an issue with the loop acquisition features of this app, many became very condescending and rude. Check yourselves before casting stones.

    No one was reacting to the request. It was your grumpy pants that got you that reaction. Notice when you ask questions without dissing the app because it wasn't what you hoped it was, people still tried to help you out.

    I think you want beatmaker2. You can capture, edit and trigger loops with it. You can use audiobus to get animoog or nlog into it too.

    Short of that, the tip above about pasting loops into loopy should help you out.

    Much respect for the tape loops! Taking the time to splice a tape loop is exactly what I meant by 'but not live'. You know? Just a completely different type of looping. In case it helps you get the picture, none of these loopers (which loopy seeks to emulate and go beyond) allow you to edit loops. http://www.sweetwater.com/c978--Loopers

    Again, editing loops within loopy is a great idea and you're not alone in wanting it. It's just not as 'essential' to most loopy users as it is to you. Do yourself and others like you a favor and go vote it up on the Facebook poll.

  • Thanks for the all the tips to work around the ubiquitous splice issue on the loops. Will definitely try cut and paste, and will look into beatmaker2. (Currently using harmonic Dog's DAW).
    Only bummer with paste method, and all the "live loopers" will relate, is trimming is set and can't be done live. Live in app trim or fades could result in very cool synchopations that would create even more interest. A live speed adjust would also be very cool, enabling two identical loops to be speed adjusted differently live, for interesting creative result. I'm very surprised speed shift isn't a basic feature. Anyway, I have to embrace Loopy for what it isn't and worth within all of its limitations as I did with tape...

    One day someone will make exactly the perfect loop tool (complete with effect busses, and real time effect automations on the individual track level), and I will be in loop heaven. I guess I have to find some savvy youngster who knows coding and I can commission this sort of thing. I'm a child of the 70's so writing computer code is before my time:)

    I've emailed Michael (Developer) with all my requests (loop trim, loop fade points, and loop speed) and as I said, he told me basically "it's not what Loopy was intended to do".
    I found that very odd and unfortunate. Seems like at least a trim feature would have come before decay. Anyway, until these changes happen in my personal opinion (no offense to anyone here, loopy will remain a powerful toy, instead of becoming a powerful professional tool.

    I do not use Facebook, so unfortunately can't vote there. (Facebook is too invasive for my tastes).

    Cheers everyone

  • edited April 2013

    I would argue that Loopy is a professional tool, people are giving up their $500 hardware loopers to use it.

    we're getting confused by terminology here I think. People here talk about " live looping" which is a term usually used to refer to on-stage recording of an audio performance and then loop it, overdub it, sometimes reverse, decay, and speed changes, etc. with the aid of a hardware looper. This is what Loopy primarily emulates. And it's a technique nicely suited to ambient electronic music performance.

    Andynan seems to be talking about something entirely different, which is on-stage or real-time manipulation of pre-configured loops of audio, a cool premise which I would like to hear some examples of. Yes it is "live" and it is "looping" but a very different core function performance-wise.

    The problem with confusing these two functions is that this is like picking up a Les Paul electric and expecting to be able to play it like a bass guitar. Sure you can go thru an octaver but the experience will be disappointing. It might even feel like trying to perform with broken strings... And it may lead someone to conclude that the Les Paul is a shoddy bass guitar, clearly only a toy.

    Now in defense of Andynan, software is different from guitars, in that it always has potential to change. I can see why he would want what is essentially a sampler that has a looping function, but with all the great UI features and stability of how well Loopy is built. So naturally he suggests the changes necessary to make Loopy be able to do both. Win-win! ...right?

    The problem is that not many Les Paul owners are interested in developing a double-neck Les Paul with a bass. And that might be part of why you are meeting so much resistance @andynan. Simplicity of live looping (in the traditional use) is part of the Loopy experience, for Michael and for most users I think.

    Now can we get back to topic? (and stay there) How's Loopy (in its current form) working for ambient evolving soundscapes? I'd like to know!

  • edited April 2013

    EDIT: Les Paul double neck bass... it can be done, but arguably doesn't represent the intentions of most guitar players.

    image

    Ok, that's a Gibson mandolin-bass, but whatever...

  • HTMx,
    Cute photo! Nicely done. Interesting analogy, though I'm not sure I agree. I think all the suggestions I am talking about are not the same as comparing a guitar to a bass.
    Every update I suggest certainly could and undoubtedly would be implemented in both the live looping scenarios you speak of... They are akin to using reverse or decay, or volume, which are already built into the app.

    Anyway, as for the topic of ambient use of loopy, for me it's working better if I just import loops using paste. Recording live into it is too frustrating without trim ability. For my ambient stuff I really go for hypnotic smooth sweeping layers of drones and arpeggios, and the abrupt glitch I encounter where the end of the loop connects back around to the beginning puts a harsh on my buzz if you know what I mean.
    So now I know that I need to create a smooth fade in and fade out in an external app, and then paste these into Loopy. It kind of limits the types of loops I can use to ones that all rise and fall, rather than have some long extended arpeggios, but I'm making due.

    This app really is a miracle compared to my former cutting of magnetic tape and feeding them into tape decks.

    Gives me inspiration to develop the app of my looping dreams!

    Peace!

  • Anyone here ever hear the group called :Zoviet France:?

  • A little hope/inspiration http://forum.audiob.us/discussion/887/bubbles-beneath-waves

    Ambient synthy action, all captured to LoopyHD via audiobus. He lists the instruments further down the thread. Final mix is direct from LoopyHD to audioshare.

  • Ok. So I've been working very hard at trying to get Loopy to "behave" and I need some help.
    Using animoog as input. My sounds have no harsh attack, and decay is long, so they are smooth sweeps. Trying to record a simple 5 note phrase into Loopy, where the tail of the phrase overlaps the beginning using "overdub".
    Track settings are sync tracks, count in rec on, count out rec on, count in quantized is clock length. I have 120bpm, and 4 bars in settings.
    I switch to animoog, using Audiobus, I hit rec on loopy, it's green until it reaches top of clock, then turns red. I begin playing animoog phrase and I can hear where my notes at end of phrase begin to overlap (overdub) the beginning of my phrase. I hit rec again to end. It stops recording when it reaches top of loop again. But there is always a glitch. Like a brief dropout, or skip.
    I've even tried switching back to Loopy app before pressing loop the second time in order to stop recording. But that glitch remains.
    What is very odd is if I hit rec the second time BEFORE the 4 bars (and my phrase) are completed, then switch back to loopy, I see my loop still in orange, playing a shorter loop than I wanted, spinning faster, but no glitch. I hit the center and the loop locks in and plays Smoothly with no transitional glitch. It's hard to explain. But it is a loop without a glitch, though not the loop I am trying to make.
    I can't figure this out. There must be a way to do this.
    Any ideas?

  • Just to add another perspective to the above discussion... NONE of the features talked about hold any interest whatsoever for my simple verse/bridge/chorus/verse cover song loop needs.

    And I know I'm not the only one.

    Total respect to the ambient crew and their needs, but it's not where my interest in Loopy lies, and as I mentioned in another thread, the threat of Loopy becoming a big, complicated, bloated behemoth is scaring me...

    Loopy starter pack??? Multiple upgrade version paths??? In app purchases???

    Simplicity!

    Just sayin...

  • @muzza - so when something is not of interest to you its not important? Well, I guess muzza is happy so we can stop development now. Anyway how would fixing the loop seams make Loopy into a "complicated, bloated behemoth?" Yeah, lets add an in-app purchase for that.

  • @Smeeeth, don't turn my comments into something they're not. Read my post again, you've totally missed my point.

    I didn't say "it's not important", I said 'it's not of interest TO ME' - big difference. Also, I've never said stop development.

    I'm just giving another perspective - I've said in other threads, there are 2 main user groups in the Loopy family. You're not the only one in yours and I'm not alone in mine.

    Loopy is different things to different people, even within the different Loopy sub-groups, as clearly shown in this discussion.

    What really surprises me is the number of ambient musicians active in this forum. No, I'm not saying that's a bad thing - it's just an eye-opener. It's a very interesting genre from what I've seen through this forum. Never seen it practiced live in my area though.

    I guess my point is that Loopy is a nice attractive simple interface, but to keep it simple, the menus behind the interface are what risks becoming over complicated.

    I'm having a discussion mate.

    Peace and respect.

  • I think it's valid to let people respectfully include their opinion, lets just stay on topic :-b

    So...

    @andynan, could you give us a soundcloud example? Just hit "record session" before starting and it's easy to directly upload recorded sessions to soundcloud. Anyway, the glitches within audiobus and animoog remind me of a problem I had a couple versions ago... Do you have the latest Loopy, Animoog and Audiobus updates? (I'm not suggesting you're a noob, it's just easy to forget ;).

  • @muzza It's a pretty versatile tool. The fact that its capable of playing 12 loops in hundreds of combinations makes it useful for ambient/soundscape kinds of work. Also having a piece that can be performed differently every time from the same components. Of course everyone uses it for live looping, building conventional song structures and all that where these loop transition issues won't even be noticed. And that's cool, but there was this discussion going on in a couple of threads about how to improve the loops for those that do notice an impact on their music. Sorry for the harsh tone, just rubbed me wrong at the time. I agree that Loopy should remain simple, elegant and fun to use.

  • @Hmtx-
    I have all latest versions of all apps. Definitely. Ok, so I've been experimenting heavily, and results continue to be inconsistent.
    My settings:
    Synchronize tracks on
    Overdub on
    Count in on
    Count out on
    Countin quantize- clock length
    4 measures
    120bps

    I switch to Animoog.
    Using Audiobus I press little rec button. It's green but I start playing a sweeping drone anyway. Rec button turns red. It records 4 measures. I begin to hear my drone overlap itself (overdubbing is occurring here). I then press rec again to stop recording.
    The resulting loop has a very brief "glitch" where audio drops out for a quick second. This is not pleasing to my ears as it sounds like an audible click that interrupts the sweeping smooth drone .
    I have tried also pressing rec, then pressing it quickly again before 4 measures are up and somehow this creates a seamless loop, but it is super short, only like 1 or 2 bars instead of 4.
    It's very odd.
    I've tried w siting to play until after Rec turns red, before it turns red..
    No luck with getting out the glitch.

  • Perhaps my obscure usage of loopy is not worthwhile for this to be an issue. Apparently I am in the fringe minority. Trying to make hypnotic, trance inducing soundscapes is difficult with these small clicks interrupting my loops. I don't use percussive beats to mask them. I'm figuring out ways to work around the glitches with very long loops, fade outs and using harder arpeggios as a mask,, but I wish I didn't always have to.
    Still I find myself returning to loopy time and time again. I love the interface.

  • edited May 2013

    Life has been crazy so I have not had the chance to play with Loopy very much. I have been preparing to play at the Asheville electro-music festival. The festival will be Friday and Saturday, May 17 and 18th. My band Twyndyllyngs will be playing on the 17th. I hope to see you there.
    http://emavl.com/
    http://twyndyllyngs.bandcamp.com/

  • Update: The Asheville electro-music festival first migrated from Asheville to Black Mountain. Then the organizer moved out west. The new organizers maintained the location and the format of the festival and it is still an electro-music festival. (Electro-music, not as a specific genre of electronic music but as a festival associated with the electro-music.com website and family of festivals.) See http://mountainskies.net if you're interested in joining us next May.

    The most recent electro-music festival was last week (the weekend after Labor Day). NEEMfest (North East electro-music festival) is at http://neemfest.org if that one is closer for you.

    Of course, http://electro-music.com and its forum started it all and joining there will keep you in the know.

    P.S. I am in the process of scouring the "interweb" for how to soundscape using loopy, AUM and Audiobus. The search continues. Are there any other people reading this who do Frippertronics?

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