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Ambient Electronic Music
edited April 2013 in Techniques
Loopy is perfectly suited for traditional song forms. I, on the other hand, need a more loose form of looping a la Frippertronics. In Twyndyllyngs, I'm looking to see if Loopy can be bent into a soundscaping tool. If anyone has beat me to the punch, I'd love to hear the nuts and bolts of your Loopyscape techniques. Loopy out of the box thinks in terms of bars and multiples of bars. In soundscaping, I need Loopy to think in terms of long washes of sound lasting many minutes.
Just turn off synchronize tracks in the settings menu and ambient loop away.
+1 on Syrupcore's suggestion. Also, check out the decay feature.
Let us know how you go
Yes, indeed I will. Thanks for the tip. I saw that synchronize tracks setting and wondered what that would do. Now, thanks to you, I know that's what I need to do.
when I think of ambient music what come to mind is changing sounds and textures, I made a tutorial (i don't mean to self promote, and i know, this doesn't even use Loopy, - i just think this may be of good help to you based on what you said) on how to control the paramaters of a synth via virtual midi & midi learn using BM2's sample synth: http://bit.ly/10hDSQf
instead of finding a cool loop, copying to BM2, and playing it over and over (while there's nothing wrong with that) this could potentially allow you to map out a changing soundscape using BM2's midi editor...
I've been doing my first experiments.... to my ears I just love to reverse a loop and to sloooow down the tempo until the waveform starts to "granulate"... if you know what I mean.
can't wait to hook up my plank and to get some six string stuff in there....
have same problems. Loopy is very hit and miss. No ability to get loops exact. No ability to speed up or slow down individual loops once sampled, no ability to edit loops, no ability to "rotate" loops to change their starting point... I made all these suggestions to developer and was basically poo-poo'd. This app is clearly a toy, not a tool
Andynan,it sounds like you are missing some key features of how Loopy works...
Have you tried watching the in app tutorials?
I find Loopy better for ambient then traditional stuff. The best way to use that I have found is to keep settings panel open and switch between track settings. This way you can experiment with how the loops interact with each other i.e. synced, not synched, count in, count out. All can give you some nice qualities and slight variation within the drone and timing. Have fun!
Yes, I watched tutorials. Still no love for Loopy. Any looper that doesn't allow basic editing of loop sample is ridiculous. And no way to scroll each loops relationship with the others is frustrating. it would be such a basic upgrade, like volume control, but they don't seem interested. It's not a pro tool, like Animoog or Beatmaker, or NanoStudio, TC-11, etc.
The basic problem with Loopy is it does too much automatically for the user, not allowing the user individual creative control of ones sounds. It's like a basic point and shoot camera... Ok pictures, but nowhere near the quality of a proper professional SLR. Frankly I was shocked that basic editing was not built in. They did so well with Audiobus. I expected more pro features allowing user creative control.
Andynan, when you say 'basic editing of loop sample' what exactly do you mean? And what other loopers do this?
Lets start with rotating loop start point: ( yes it's very easy to do)
Hold two fingers on opposite sides of a loop's waveform.
Twist the waveform clockwise to adjust the loop later compared to the other loops
Twist counter-clockwise to adjust the loop earlier compared to the other loops
it's also in the "advanced track controls" tutorial. It's a very simple, efficient feature of Loopy that you really can't live without.
No hard feelings Andynan, but the way your posts come across... frankly almost make you look like a troll and definitely confuse new users. I am pretty sure the forum is here to help people enjoy making music with Loopy. On this forum we'll assume that is your goal, as fellow musicians we want to hear what other problems you're having and help figure out solutions.
I don't know what instrument you play.... I started out back in 199something with the old Oberheim Echoplex then graduated to the JamMan. Have seen Fripp doing his frippertronics live, and other guys play live loops with guitars or voice...to me looping is all about the improv + the layers and maybe some reverse stuff. So I can really dig the loops I am doing with Loopy. I don't find any need to edit the loops within this app - if I really need to I can use Hokusai, GarageBand (or more powerful editors). But at that stage I'd be already in the realm of "structured composition".
Peace & grooves
@Andynan: I think maybe you're confusing live looping with sequencing. Loopy is not a sequencer. Use Beatmaker 2 to record, edit, loop and layer tracks in a studio setting. Loopy is for live playing, especially for the singer/songwriter or ambient styles. Who stops playing in the middle of a song to edit out mistake? Hopefully, you've practiced enough that you don't make those mistakes live, in the first place.
Basically, it sounds to me like you bought a Lamborghini and are complaining about the lack of truck space.
Yep, sounds like you bought the wrong app. Loopy does what it does extremely well. Have a look on YouTube to see the sort of thing loopy excels at. Sadly, I don't think it's what you were thinking it was.
Here is a mixdown of my first experiment with audio textures. Used some very simple stuff from the Caelestis app, reversed it and slooooooowed it down.... some ambient background noises (ehr, errors) add some spice to the blend.
Can't wait to get my guitar plugged in :-)
Sorry to offend the fanboys here. I just feel loopy isn't where it could be technically. Funny how people rail on me for pointing out simple things it is missing. To use as an instrument, it would be cool to first have all my loops edited to where they work in my compositions. A simple loop editing tool within the app saves a bunch of switching apps, copy/pasting, etc. A basic tool to edit the start and stop points of a loop (as well as fade in and fade out point, and loop speed/tempo if desired) would make Loopy much more useable. Once all my loops are set and edited to how I like them, playing loopy would be fun. The problem is I guess developer is content to leave app as is, and doesn't see it's potential to step up their product. Loopy is fun once the loops are how I like them. Problem is getting them there. I have found it frustrating to start/ stop the Loop recording to sample my audio loop to be exactly as desired. Basic ability to edit the loops would alleviate this.
I play animoog, Filtatron, guitar, bass, DM-1, Borderlands Granular, TC-11, Arp Odyssey, etc.
I play ambient textures and enjoy using all those apps. Looked forward to Loopy, but find it a bit of a let down. It's almost there, and I want to love it, but am frustrated with the way the loops are acquired in the app. Simple loop editing would totally solve this.
Thanks for describing what you mean by editing the loops. It sounds like you want to record some audio, edit it and then use it in Loopy, right? If this is the case, then you are far better off using some type of DAW to record and edit things before you send them to Loopy. Today, for example, I'll be spending some time recording things on my old PC with Cubase. The editing available is massive and I'm intending to use these loops with Loopy and a sampler. Even something like GarageBand is much better at recording and editing audio. As I asked earlier though, have you found a looper (hardware or software) that does this? I'd be interested to find out.
Now, once you have the loops as you want them and you want to manipulate the playback speed during performance you are better off using an iOS sampler.
I'm going to check out this one:
If you want to combine a sample player with live looping app then, thanks to iOS and audiobus, it's easy to combine them.
What Loopy does very well is live looping. This really seems to be the aim of the developer and in my opinion has been successfully achieved (I've been using software based loopers for the last 6 or so years). The app is updated regularly and the updates always improve the performance as, you guessed it, a live looper.
The features you describe as missing are really better served by the types of apps/programs I've described above, they simply aren't the goals of live loopers. Based on your posts, I think your expectations and the purpose of the app are actually quite different.
I'm sorry you feel 'railed' against (and after reading the replies, I don't believe you have been) but some of your language invites a response. Saying a looper without audio editing is 'ridiculous' is simply inaccurate. Suggesting that the developer doesn't "see the potential to step up their product" just because your expectations are different really misses the point and sounds misinformed at best.
Going to reply to your 'fanboy' flinging trolliness even though my mom said I shouldn't.
I understand that loopy isn't what you want. And I can definitely see how you could really use features like loop editing so that you can 'play loopy'. Indeed, I see how that could be fun/cool/handy myself. Thing is, that's not what loopy is about. It's focused (quite successfully and quite purposefully) on LIVE looping. I use it mostly as a song writing and idea capture tool but even that is not at all what loopy is about. Live. Looping.
For sure, 'the dev' (who is a human being with feelings just like you and his name is Michael) could pivot and do lots of different things with loopy. But every pivot detracts from the apps main focus, live looping. I see that that isn't your main focus (it's not mine either) but to say shit about the app or the developer when you want a different app is basically just rude and selfish. It's not as though Michael claimed it did any of those things you want - you just want them. And fair enough but that's not his or loopy's fault.
Have a little perspective.
Ha @stjambience. so, live looping eh?
Your tip to turn off "synchronize tracks" helps... Almost. Good idea.... But- Here is what I do.:
I open Animoog and create a cool complicated ambient sound that I want to loop. I use Animoog's "hold" feature to sustain the cool sound i have created. Then I switch to Loopy and attempt to record this as a loop. I hit REC, let loopy do its recording, and hit REC again to stop it. So there is my loop. Why it isn't perfect is the loop has an abrupt start and an abrupt stop since its physically impossible to time my button presses exactly where they need to be. I want to fade in the sound, and fade it out within the loop. So then when my loop plays back, it smoothly loops with a pleasant rise and fall. Also maybe I want to trim it down, make it shorter. Again, can't do it. This is what I mean by editing a loop. I know ALL of the Loopy fanboys would totally LOVE this added ability to fine tune their loops. Many don't know what thy are missing, but would be overjoyed once they could do it. I guess ignorance is bliss.
"That's not what Loopy is about" is a cop out. It can be about anything.
Sure Loopy never made any claims to be able to totally edit a loop. I assumed it would have this. It didn't, and I found making the perfect loop for my use very hit and miss. It needs editing.
I just made a suggestion that would give users more hands-on control over their loops. This would do nothing but ENHANCE the users experience.
But how it sounds is this: "Loopy is perfect, we don't want to make it any better... It's not about that"
I was just making a simple suggestion that would benefit everyone, and instead get the cop out, "it's not what loopy is about"
I thought loopy was about making cool sounds with loops? How could adding user control over the loops length and ability to create cross fades within a loop be anything but cool and enrich the apps experience?
We can adjust loops volume, adjust loops direction, spin loops starting point... All in loopy, which is great. These are all forms of editing a loop.
Why not consider taking it a step further. I was shocked that this feature wasn't a basic building block of the app. A useful looper, in my mind, would seem to be one that you could actually create perfect loops, exactly as you want them to sound, and then play them.
As it stands, it's a crap shoot every time I hit REC as to whether or not I get the loop I desire. I really want to love this app, so much potential as an amazing tool... it is 90% there...
no one, fanboy or otherwise, is going to edit their loop while they are... wait for it... wait for it... wait for it a little longer..... looping live!
Good job actually asking a "how do I..." question at the start of your comment. In addition to not being rude, you might try this:
Safari could be 'about anything' too, I guess. It would be great if Safari let us load other people's loopy session files and get a preview!
It would be great if Jam Up had a vocoder!
It would be great if I could load android apps on my iphone!
I'd love all three. All reasonably a part of each app's adjacent possible but just because it's possible and would be great doesn't mean it makes any sense (or is a high priority) for the app's intended purpose.
No one is wanting loopy to stop development. It's just that you've come into this thread guns-a-blazing thinking you're shooting at a derelict chicken but it's actually a lovely giraffe! You just want it to be a chicken and since it's not a chicken, you shoot it anyway because yer mad. C'mon man.
I'm actually really glad to hear you spell out a real scenario with Animoog and Loopy. That is the kind of stuff that will get people on this forum more interested in responding helpfully sorry if I've been rude.
Here's a trick I found with loopy and audiobus:
Set your track management > syncronization like this photo.
First you set a 4 beat loop (or measure, or bar, whatever you want to call it). This will let you start any new loop on the downbeat of any bar. Just tap record any time before the bar begins. Then tap the loop to stop recording and it will end at the end of that bar, whether it is three bars long, eight bars long, or 7, etc. uneven Loops will evolve with each other but still be in sync over time.
I don't know if this is what you are aiming for, but it works great for me. Mostly Animoog, DM1, to loopy HD on iPad 2.
Oh, and have you been using the "rotate" loops to change their starting point function? I thought you would be stoked to discover that... But... no word from you... Still predominantly complaints, bummer.
Really we are nice people here and like to act decently with each other. The more you return the favor, the more helpful you might find the forum to be.
Happy music making, folks.
Andyman, people are actually trying to politely suggest solutions for your issue. There are some good workarounds suggested above. Unfortunately, you continue to make broad and ignorant generalisations...I'd address them but it seems pointless. I'm not interested in the feature you are proposing, but here is the official suggestion box:
Hmtx, I agree...make loops not war.
Syrupcore...well I thought live looping, but it might be a lovely giraffe! Either way, it's not an audio editor or a chicken
Hey Uncle Groove...nice trippy reverse track on soundcloud!
Thanks for the heads up about that s-4 app. Looks very good and useful. I will buy it and try it.
Here is the thing I'm wondering... Say I use s-4 to fine tune samples to be used as loops in Loopy. I'm still faced with the physical impossibility of importing the loops exactly as I make them in s-4, because if I use Audiobus, and select Loopy as the Input, S-4 as output, then switch to s-4 and playback a sample, there is a slight delay from when I press REC on Loopy then "play" on S-4, then stop on Loopy. So again, my loop won't be exact and will require trimming in Loopy, which it can't do, and as I've been told profusely, "it's not about that".
Any advice on how to get an exact loop length into Loopy?
I guess I'm baffled as to why this seemingly basic and quite essential feature is absent.
Just trying to find a work-around.
Forgot to thank you for the tip on rotating loops start point. That is cool. Thanks.
As for your other suggestion... Thanks as well. It works well with DM-1, which has distinct, beat counts, measures and bpms that can be matched in loopy. This is where Loopy works well.
Now only problem is with Animoog, or Grain Science or Nlog synth Pro. My sounds are very ambient and don't have downbeats, so that hasn't worked for me precisely. I get close, but always a bit hit and miss and never exactly how I want it. Especially with abstract complex repeating arpeggios that I want to make seamless loops out of. A little trim function would help this out immensely in Loopy. But I've thankfully been enlightened to know, "it's not what Loopy is about..." My bad.
I have already been doing things exactly as Syrupcore spelled out on his 8 point list. !
Still there is a lag between steps 4 and 5, and again between steps 7 and 8.
That's my point.
I do appreciate all the suggestions, and I'm trying them all. Funny how much offense people take to a little constructive criticism. It is amusing to see the knee jerk reactions.
To be clear, I'm not asking for an audio editor, I'm asking or wishing for a way to fine tune my loops in a program that otherwise is pretty cool. I didn't realize I was blaspheming the "live loop" gods with that request. I am an idiot to think I should desire a little preproduction on my loops and use it as a compositional tool.
The way I use Loopy "live" is to set up all 12 spots with interesting loops, and fade them in and out at will in interesting ways to produce interesting music. Pre-produce the loops, then play them live on the fly.
I apologize for being such a moron. I'm not using it correctly. I am an idiot. Thanks for helping me discover this.
I'm such an idiot to think ability to trim/edit a looped sample would be a good idea for this loop based app. Creative control over my loops, What was I thinking?!!
My bad. It's such an absurd suggestion. I know... suggesting that was tantamount to suggesting my iPad to cook dinner for me. Excuse my ignorance.
Oh and to Michael- thanks for Audiobus. It is a god send.
Using Nlog Synth Pro, playing a crazy complex arpeggio, HOW DO I get a seamless loop of say 4 seconds of this arpeggio into loopy without a glitch in the loop from where it ends and starts?
On a general note.... I came to forum because originally I asked Michael directly if ability to trim in and out points of loop clips, and potentially add volume fade points inside loops was on the horizon. I have been trying to use Loopy, and found the actual loop acquisition step to be problematic. Simple "trim loop" ability would solve this quite easily. That's all. He basically said what many of you are saying, that being able to control this parameter of the loop (it's start and end) was "not what Loopy is about". I found this odd, because controlling its overall volume, rotating its start point, controlling it's direction (reverse), are all valid parameters to control within the app. Why is what I'm requesting any different? It's just another parameter of the loop that should be controllable if one wishes to have complete creative control with this app.
I've tried everything- sync tracks on and off, decay on and off, overdub on and off... I've gone through all tutorials, and viewed a bunch of YouTube videos with Loopy. I know exactly what the issue is. A simple "trim" function, embedded into the same menu where you find volume, pan, reverse, and decay would completely solve this.
Scroll up to re-read my first and second posts, and that's all I was saying.
Just trying to figure out how to acquire the exact loops I need to use the "live looper" as an effective instrument for my soundscapes. If I can't get my instruments properly tuned before performing, it's a problem. That's all it is. Like trying to perform with a guitar that has a couple broken strings... (And yes, I've done that too)
I have been making experimental ambient soundscapes since the early 80s splicing and taping magnetic tape into loops through a series of Tascam reel to reel tape decks, and "Roland Space Echoes". I have been using Acid Loops on my PC since it was first launched over a decade ago. I know what I'm doing, and how to use technology effectively. This app is a potentially cool addition to my arsenal... It just needs a couple minor tweaks to become amazing. Does anybody see this?
Because I had an issue with the loop acquisition features of this app, many became very condescending and rude. Check yourselves before casting stones.
Rather than even consider adding a trim feature to this app, Michael suggested I go to this forum to find a work around. I thought that was rather dismissive, coming from a developer. And in here everyone seems to think that I'm asking for the app to cook my breakfast.
I'm not asking for this app to clean my toilet. I'm not suggesting a feature that is diametrically opposed to the "heart" of this app. I am suggesting a very useful and basic feature that I know most users would end up using, and being very happy they had it. And yes, loops could be "trimmed" on the fly, LIVE, for creative effect. Why not? Used the same way one uses the volume or reverse controls.
For those who don't get it, buy Filtatron app from Moog, and go to the sampler section and see what I mean about "trimming" samples live. There are simple IN and OUT sliders at each end of the sample (loop) that can be slid back and forth controlling the length of the loop...yes... Wait for it stjambience... It's coming... LIVE!