Complet e MIDI newB confused by the FCB1010

edited April 2013 in Equipment

My setup is the focusrite 8i6 into the Ipad mini. When I first got loopyhd I plugged my old roland keyboard into it and was able to program bindings instantly, just by pressing the key I wanted to trigger the action. For instance middle C was my "record without count in" binding. I then started jamming with my keyboard on the floor, carefully triggering loopy with my toes while I played guitar. Needless to say this isn't so practical so I bought the FCB1010. But I have no knowledge of midi and am completely stumped.
I went thru the steps described in the "Idiots guide to the FCB1010" to set the midi channel to 1. Was this not necessary? I'm not even sure what midi channel the scarlet8i6 is using, or does the scarlet only pass thru, and loopy is the midi channel selector?? I can find no info in my scarlet user guide abt midi channel selection.

I tried to follow IvanM's programming guide, but get stumped at step 5. After pressing the up switch of step four, all footswitches 1-10, light up. Does this mean all of them have associated midi info already?

I just bought the FCB 1010 off of Amazon, it wasn't brand new, but was sold as "like new". Perhaps it's been programmed already? The FCB1010 user guide shows how to reset the unit to factory presets, but the default settings are for "V-Amp family products" , "Behringer guitar amps", and "Bass V-amp product range". Which factory default do I use?

Help! I don't think I've ever come across a more un-user friendly piece of equipment.

Comments

  • I felt exactly the same as you at first, but after some reading, I now think it is actually very easy to use.

    Basically, here are the things you need to know about MIDI as it relates to Loopy and the FCB1010:

    • There are 4 main types of MIDI message: Control Change [CC], Program Change [PC], Expression, and Note. For Loopy's purposes, CC, PC, and Note messages accomplish basically the same thing. Each of these messages is assigned a value from 0-127. Again, for Loopy's purposes, these numbers are basically arbitrary. They simply serve as unique commands. Note that some messages, such as CC's, may also have a secondary "value." The same is true of these values; as far as Loopy is concerned, they have no special meaning other than as a unique identifier for the command.

    • Each pedal on the controller is actually a "preset," or a trigger for up to 10 different actions. So, for example, preset 1 could send two PC's and one CC.

    • See those labels on the foot pedals? Those are for programming the presets. If you press preset 1, the light should turn on, indicating that you have selected it. From there, if you hold the "down" button for a few seconds, you will enter the programming interface for that preset. To program it, press "up," then you will probably see several pedals lit up. Each lit up pedal represents a MIDI message that gets sent whenever you trigger the preset. The label on each pedal indicates the type of MIDI message it represents. Remember, Loopy doesn't care which type of message you use (except Expression, more on that later), so you basically can send 8 messages per preset. Read the manual for detailed information on programming the presets.

    • Presets are organized into "banks." You change banks with the up and down switches. Each bank contains 10 presets. So you can have 10 different pedal layouts saved and switch between them.

    • Expression - by default, every preset has the expression pedals enabled. This will allow you to map track volume and pan controls to the pedals. You do need to calibrate the pedals as outlined in the manual.

    There are lots of other things to learn about MIDI. I have learned a ton in just the past week. Keep in mind that my explanations are based on the basics you need to use your pedalboard with loopy, so I have simplified some concepts. Hope this is helpful!

  • Thank you so much for your reply! This info is very useful. However, I'm still confused as to how to make this work with loopy. Do I need to go through and give each pedal a number? And then loopy will see this number when I try to set a binding ( the waiting for action dialogue), thus assigning a command to a pedal?
    And the global configuration I did, did that make any sense to do? It seems loopy recognizes my fcb1010, but as an "unrecognized device".
    My idea for the pedal is that pedal 1 would be record, pedal 2 be select next track, pedal 3 select previous track, etc. with the volume and tempo mapped to the expression pedals. I can't see needing more than 10 bindings (other than the expression pedals) so I don't think I'll need more than one bank. Am I thinking about all of this correctly? Or does the pedal function in a really different way, with only certain foot switches capable of controlling certain types of bindings?
    Again thanks again for the help!

  • You can set any pedal to any binding you like. So, in the bindings list choose 'record' and then Loopy will be 'waiting for action'. Then you press your pedal 1, you have just told Loopy you want pedal 1 as 'record'. Save that binding and move onto the next functions you want.

  • I don't know whether the "unrecognized device" thing is a problem or not. There is a free app called MIDI monitor that will let you see whether the device is receiving MIDI messages and what they are. You could use that to troubleshoot.

    As for how the binding process works: Loopy isn't looking for a "pedal number." It's looking for a MIDI message. When you press one of the foot pedals, it sends whatever MIDI message(s) you have programmed for that pedal (preset) to Loopy. So if you have pedal (preset) 1 set to send "PC 1", and you open the "add new binding" dialog in Loopy and select "toggle record," then press pedal 1, it will bind "toggle record" to "PC 1" (note that it may say "PC 0" due to numbering differences between the devices). It's like writing "red" on the pedal, and when you press the pedal it sends the word "red". Loopy doesn't care which pedal it is coming from, it only cares that it saw the word "red." You could write "red" on all the pedals, and then every pedal press would do the same thing.

    If this still doesn't make sense, can you tell is specifically what is confusing you?

  • I was able to get loopy to recognize pedal 1 as toggle record, but when I tried to bind " select next track" to pedal 2, it was already in use to a binding. So I guess I need to go through and program each pedal to a different color (in terms of your "red" model). This is what I meant when I was asking if I shld assign every pedal a number. So first I need to program every pedal to a unique preset number, then I need to set each preset to a program number? It has to be programmed twice?

    Also, these two instructions confuse me from the manual on programming a program change :

    "To program a MIDI function, you have to first activate it. Individual MIDI functions are activated by keeping the corresponding keys pressed for a few seconds. Active MIDI functions are indicated by a permanently lit footswitch LED."
    The keys mean the foot switch right? But what do they mean by midi function? Aren't I just putting a unique ID or "color" to the pedal, and the midi function comes when I get to loopy.

    " Select the PROGRAM CHANGE you wish to program for the selected PRESET by briefly pressing the respective footswitch (footswitches 1 to 5). The footswitch LED blinks."
    Does this mean only pedals 1-5 can be program changes? So the rest have to be control changes or something else?

    So sorry to be daft but I don't understand the terminology. I'm going to do some reading on it. But any quick answers would be great.

  • Your terminology is making it more difficult because it is different than what I am using. Each pedal basically represents a preset. Each preset, in turn, represents zero or more MIDI commands or messages. Each command or message consists of a command type (PC, CC, Note, Expr), a number, and, in CC's and PC's, a value or min/max value pair.

    So you don't assign a number to a pedal. You assign commands to a preset. So if one preset has the same command as another preset, you can't use both of those pedals for two different actions, because they represent the same function.

    So the short answer is yes, you have to program a different command for each preset.

    " Select the PROGRAM CHANGE you wish to program for the selected PRESET by briefly pressing the respective footswitch (footswitches 1 to 5). The footswitch LED blinks." Does this mean only pedals 1-5 can be program changes? So the rest have to be control changes or something else?

    No. When you are programming a preset, those pedals are no longer representing presets. Instead, each pedal represents a COMMAND within the preset you are editing. So if you are editing preset 1 and you see pedals 4, 8, and 9 illuminated, it means that preset has 3 commands active: a PC and two expression commands. If you press pedal 4 in this situation, it will start blinking, and if you press return, you can set the NUMBER associated with that command (remember how I said each command consists of a type, a number, and sometimes another value/set of values?) You can have up to 5 PC's, 2 CC's, and a Note command, plus two expression commands PER PRESET! This means you could, for example, assign the first PC slot to PC 12 and the second PC slot to PC 13, then bind those to "mute track 1" and "mute track 2" respectively. THEN, when you activate that PRESET, the controller will send TWO MIDI commands, and trigger TWO actions in Loopy.

    I hope that isn't too confusing. That's the only way I know how to explain it. You have to realize that since there are a limited number of interface elements on the pedal board, different elements have to serve different functions depending on context.

  • I restored factory defaults by powering up with pedals 1 &6 pressed to start with a clean slate.
    I didn't do the global midi channel selection because I don't think it matters correct?

    I followed these directions from the idiots guide to program pedal 1.

    "Program a Preset

    Now lets program the 1 button to select preset 23 on your MIDI gear.
    1.Press the 1 button.
    2.Press and hold the Down button on the FCB1010 for about 5 seconds. This puts the FCB1010 in programming mode for preset 1.
    3.Press the UP button once.
    4.Usually one or more buttons will now have their LEDs on. The green light will be at select.
    5.If the 1 LED is not on, press and hold the 1 button until the LED comes on.
    6.Press the 1 button again, and it should begin to blink.
    7.Press the UP button once. The display should begin to brink showing the current PC command.
    8.Press the 2 button. Press the 3 button.
    9.Press the UP button once.
    10.Now press and hold the Down button for about 5 seconds."

    I was able to create a "toggle record" binding with pedal 1. The binding info is CC0,Off Ch3.

    Why does loopy say CC0,Off Channel 3. Shouldn't it say PC23, Off Channel 1?

    I went thru the above steps again to program pedal 2. Replacing pedal 1 for 2 in every step. At step 8, I entered 2,4 instead. When I try to create a new binding to pedal 2, loopy says it is "bound to toggle record".

    In your original replay you said
    "To program it, press "up," then you will probably see several pedals lit up. Each lit up pedal represents a MIDI message that gets sent whenever you trigger the preset. The label on each pedal indicates the type of MIDI message it represents. "
    At step 4, all the pedals are lit up. So am I sending all these midi messages at once with pedal 1?

  • I went back and did the global midi channel program to see if it made a difference. It doesn't seem to, although now loopy sees the device at Channel 0.

    Still trying to successfully program a new preset. When not in programming mode, the display shows 00 for every pedal pressed. Should the display change to the preset number if it is successfully programmed? No matter how many times I try it, when I enter a number for the preset at step8, the display number is always 00 when not in programming mode.

  • @christytiger - in normal use, the display shows 00 unless you change banks (the UP and DOWN pedals between the 5/10 pedals and the Expression pedals). It is possible to program the FCB1010 manually ( I've done a couple of changes that way), but it is much simpler to use one of the FCB1010 editors. Do you have a windows PC? Unfortunately the only free editors are for Windows. Also, you may need to remove the bottom cover and verify which version prom is in it. Besides the standard proms from Behringer, there is an UNO prom from a thirdparty. I believe 2.5.1e is the latest Behringer prom and 2.3 is the minimum recommended version. The idiots guide assumes you have the Behringer prom ( >=2.3 ).

  • @christy, as I said, any pedals that are lit up represent a command that aims tied to the preset. So, YES, Yu are sending multiple commands. Make sure pedals 6 and 7 are not illuminated when you are editing the preset. If you want to deactivate a command, press and hold on that key until it turns off.

  • I've opened the back and the chip says 2.5, so I think I'm ok for firmware. I was trying to avoid using the PC editors because I'm a mac user and I'd like to be able to program changes without the aid of a computer, like if I'm on the road, it'd be good to know how to do it. But if my confusion persists I will probably have to break down and use the editor.
    Nextyoyoma, your latest post clarifies a lot to me. When I press down on the other pedals to shut them off in step 4, the other pedals blink, I will try holding them down for awhile and see if they shut off. And many thanks for the help again, I'm really blown away by the support here in this forum!

  • At step 4, I cannot get the other pedal lights to turn off, even if I hold them for a long time. If I press them one at a time they blink, and pedal 1 , which I am trying to program, stops blinking. How do I turn off the other midi commands? Is there some global setting that I have wrong?

  • I think you are getting the steps out of sequence.

    Watch this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0NoYefhB6w

    That should let you see how it works. Unfortunately, his video is flipped horizontally, but you can at least see the programming process work. Also, a few times he says "bank" to refer to which command he is editing. Just ignore that terminology, as it is not technically accurate.

  • For what it's worth, I never programmed my FCB1010 at all. I simply assigned the default presets to a binding in Loopy. As long as you're not getting fancy with multiple messages per preset, or sending to various apps at once, then you don't need to worry about programming the FCB.

  • Chadsell, this didn't seem possible to me. When I first got the pedal, I connected it immediately to loopy without doing anything, and I was only able to make one binding, all the other pedals said they were already bound. So it's the same problem I'm experiencing now. I will try restoring factory defaults again.

  • edited April 2013

    I think my pedal is just busted. Perhaps it's the firmware? Although when I opened the back it says v2.5. What's the best way to get a firmware upgrade? Contact behringer directly?

    Here is a video of me repeatedly trying to reset factory presets, enter global program mode and program a preset. At 3:21 in the video, You'll see all the pedals come on and I cannot turn them off.

    So let me know if it's not the pedal and I'm still doing something wrong. Sorry the video is upside down.

    http://youtu.be/RihnX769VZI

  • Looks like there's probably something wrong with your gear. :-(



    One last thing you might try is to unplug the midi cable and do one more attempt at the factory reset. Those blinking 8s can happen if the board is getting MIDI messages while it's booting up. Maybe there's some sort of MIDI signal interfering with the reset process?

  • Unplugging the midi cable allowed me to restore defaults, but the pedal still won't consistently allow me to enter global mode, nor program a preset.

  • Sorry I can't help with programming; I just use the built-in presets. Try checking around here for more info: http://www.mtnsys.com/?path=faq-fcb/showfaqs.asp?



    After restoring defaults, can you successfully make MIDI bindings in Loopy?

  • No, I'm returning the pedal!

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