Holy Grail Unlocked: How to Record Sections A>B>C with one button!

edited February 2013 in Techniques

Ok, so a bunch of folks on this forum have been attempting this for a long time and tonight I finally figured out how to do it so I want to share. The new bindable action "Toggle Record with Mute+Select the Next Track" gets us a long way towards my goal as a guitarist which is to seemlessly go into the next section of a song like from the verse to the chorus or bridge with only one foot-press. BUT, as many have pointed out, you still need to do "something else" to get that Next track to start recording.

My setup is an ipad2 in an Alesis dock. The dock has multiple ports, including a foot-switch port which is key to this working. Note, I do have a Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot controller plugged in via MIDI-cable but the key here is a self-built simple momentary-switch stomp box plugged into that foot-switch port.
The foot-switch port is a stereo 1/4" jack so you can send one of two signals through the dock. If you connect the tip of the cable to the sleeve[ground], you send a MIDI command that Loopy recognizes as "Clock Start" and if you repeat the same thing it inverts to "Clock Stop" - It's a single latching flip-flop that doesn't matter how long you hold the connection. It is either on or off.
On the other hand, if you connect the RING to the ground, you get a momentary/sustain-pedal flip-flop which Loopy reads as a quick on/off to CC64 on Channel1. Until now I was using this as a clear function because you need to send the clear action twice in order to actually clear a track, but... I realized that I was blowing the opportunity that the new "Toggle Record and Mute/Select Next Track" provides...

So here's what you do.
Get yourself a generic momentary switch footswitch. Or, if you're like me, just build one out of parts from Radio Shack [really really easy project] - Something like this http://liveukulele.com/gear/how-to-make-a-footswitch-for-boss-or-roland-gear/ and then connect that to the Alesis ioDock.

Go into the MIDI bindings and setup the button that controls the tip/flip-flop connection to do "Toggle Record and Mute/Select Next Track" on the selected track
Repeat this, because you want to capture both sides of the flip flop and since you want the button to behave the same way, set the exact same binding for "Clock On" as for "Clock Off" - Of course, anything could send this [Truthfully, I use a button on my FCB1010], but it's key that the recording chain start off with a button that is NOT the momentary]

Now, set a binding to the down-press of the other ring-grounding switch, but don't lift your foot/finger up yet. Bind the "Toggle Record and Mute/Select Next Track" action to the down-press which will be CC64 On. Don't break the connection yet! Hit save, then go and add a new binding and once loopy is listening for events, then break the connection. To this CC64 Off, you want to assign "Start recording without count-in".

SO, kapoof, with that one button, as long as you start with another button sending that first "kick-off" to get the chain going, when you're ready to jump tracks, that momentary switch will on contact send "Toggle Record and Mute/Select Next Track" and as soon as you pick up your foot and break the connection, it will send "Start recording without count-in"

So your caveat is, don't let your foot rest on the pedal for too long.

Hope it helps!
Thank you all for your help!
Thank you Michael for a great app and great support!

PS> This should really be a bindable action, but after working on this for a few months, I'm glad I've got a solution for myself, Ganthoffer, Oscarecoe, and others...

Comments

  • edited February 2013

    Boberto,

    Looks promising.
    Question: When you are using the "clock on"/"clock off", that no doubt removes the ability to have Loopy sync to external clock, yes?

    "This should really be a bindable action" > agreed!

    Thanks for your efforts man. Nice use of logic and creativity.

    This forum seems to be building a nice community. I look forward to the sharing of ideas it promises.

    Respect, Otis

  • I'll have to try that out. I already have a similar homemade foot Footswitch for my Jamman.

    Thanks @Boberto

  • I too will give a whirl with my Yamaha pedal plugged into my Oxygen25. Although this feature doesn't interest me as much as others, it could still be useful in some songs.

  • Nice work! Yeah, it's really time I worked further on those actions though.

  • OscarcRoe - I don't know that it does. The same way that CC7 is, while usually volume, just a binding that can be set to whatever, I don't know that the action it recognizes as "ClockStart"/"ClockStop" would necessarily be one that stops and starts the clock. Honestly though, I don't have any clock/MIDI-slave things going on that i could test it with. Sorry.

    Ganthofer - That's the exact thing I cannibalized! FYI - I already tried and either the Alesis dock or Loopy doesn't see the "3rd message" of grounding BOTH the ring and tip - It just randomly sequences the two messages other messages so that 3rd button on a digitech external switch just gets in the way.

    Cheers gents! I'm a happy camper.

    Michael - Well, the ability I have lost is a one-touch clear/destruction... but if you manifest that undo/redo I may never need it ;)

  • @ Boberto
    Funktastic work! Thanks for sharing - just wondered if the momentary-switch action can not be set on one of the FCB1010 switches???
    Will try at home and let you guys know ;)

  • Wondering same thing about pluging this into FCB1010.
    As I'm french I need to take some time to understand this workaround... ;)

  • @Boberto - do you have the UNO or the Standard EPROM in your FCB1010? It sounds like you have the UNO and are using a pedal configured for Stomp Box mode.

    Quote:

    [Truthfully, I use a button on my FCB1010], but it's key that the recording chain start off with a button that is NOT the momentary]

  • To try to make this easier, I've built this new action in (I've also made "Mute" stop recording and actually mute when triggered on a recording track, too):

  • :D ! Annnnd when might we expect that update to get pushed eh? ...

    I don't have the UNO EPROM so I'm not using stomp-box mode.
    My momentary two pushbutton box is not plugged into my FCB1010, it's plugged into my AlesisIODock which has this non-descript "Footswitch" port. The FCB does it's thing, and the two button box does its deal all at the same time.

    BUT.... these are moot points now. Thanks Michael! :D

  • No problem =)

    Ahhhhh I'm not gonna give you a date in case I can't make it ('cos software's tricky that way!), but I'll release it "pretty soon" because there're a couple bugs I wanna fix, too.

  • Some of this has been addressed with the update, but the workflow originally described does allow more versatility. However, I have not been able to get it to work for me. Whenever I bind an action to, for example, CC 64 OFF, the action is triggered by CC 64 ON as well. So if I bind two separate actions to the on/off messages for the same CC, both actions happen simultaneously. I have verified in MIDI monitor that only the ON message is being sent until I release the trigger (footpedal or network midi control), but the behavior persists. Is this expected?

  • edited April 2013

    This is all a little confusing for sure. I bought a simple Boss FS-5U momentary switch. I just want to start and stop clips right? Loopy crashes a bit. What do you start with in the bindings? How come it's always a Start & Stop. Only 2 bindings?

  • @LoHs1 - short answer, for playing track one after the other "Mute and play next muted track" might work for your situation. Yes, only 2 MIDI commands with your setup. They can be bound to any of the bindings in Loopy, but they will alternate every Footswitch press. See below for more details of the iO dock Footswitch connection.

    The Alesis iO dock footswitch jack is a TRS (1/4 inch stereo jack - Tip Ring Sleeve). The FS-5U is a single momentary switch, I assume you are connecting to the iO dock with a standard TS cable/plug (Tip Sleeve - 2 wire). This give you access to one of the switch circuits, in this case the Toggling the MIDI Start ( code 250) and MIDI Stop (code 252). The second switch circuit in the iO dock is accessible via the Ring and Sleeve of a TRS jack and sends a CC #63 value 127 when the contact is closed (this would normally be the pressing of the Footswitch) and sends a CC #63 value 0 when the contact is opened (this would normally be the releasing of the Footswitch).

    You can access the second circuit a number of ways:

    • a 2 button Footswitch with a TRS connector
    • a TRS splitter - connect your current Footswitch to one of the 2 inputs it provides to gain access to either circuit, but only one or get 2 foot switches and connect both to the splitter.
    • wire your own TS to TRS cable for your foot switch. Again, only access to one or the other with only one Footswitch.
  • edited April 2013

    Yo.. @Ganthofer, thanks so much man. That's still a lot for me to wrap my head around, ja!?!? Let me try to just absorb all this a little more and get back to you in a bit on all that.

    I'm not sure what I'm actually trying to do with everything I got going on. I'm trying to keep it all somewhat ECONOMICAL, but quality (good luck, right?) Would you think perhaps I should take the one SWITCH back to GUITAR CENTER and look at another? If so what is good do you know?

    I saw this one guy, JoeyJoel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbYi8hUeDGw&list=FL6BQ1fPlJp9pDybro7IPxgA&feature=mh_lolz

    All this looked pretty cool and a seamlessly easy way to make good beats. My knowledge is growing, but all this is still a bit perplexing to me. The cable/plug I have is the one from MY bass guitar I have, from when I'd bought it; so yes, probably a TS. Another ring on the tip is what I need? I like the simplicity of the FS-5U and the no clicking, but a fatter contact would be good too huh?

    So.. I guess all this is a little beyond me:

    "You can access the second circuit a number of ways:

    a 2 button Footswitch with a TRS connector
    a TRS splitter - connect your current Footswitch to one of the 2 inputs it provides to gain access to either circuit, but only one or get 2 foot switches and connect both to the splitter.
    wire your own TS to TRS cable for your foot switch. Again, only access to one or the other with only one Footswitch."

    ?? do i want to access the TRS?

  • @LoHs1 - not trying to complicate thing. The Boss FS-6 is a dual foot switch, but twice the cost of an FS-5U ( plus a little more;-). It really depends on what you want to be able to do. I'm assuming you want to control Loopy with you foot because your hands are busy making music. The Footswitch inputs of the IO dock are a bit limited. You only get to toggle between 2 bindings with one Footswitch and press/release (on/off) another binding with the second foot switch. Maybe give us an idea of you proposed workflow.

  • Hi there
    Great stuff going on here.
    I just purchased an Alesis IO dock, I am using an ipad 3, and I have a midi foot controller, a momentary one switch foot controller and a boss fs6.
    I cannot get loopy to recognize any midi events from either of the foots switches, or the midi controller.

    No matter what I try.

    I have turned everything off and started again, and still no luck. It just ways "waiting for event"

    Am I missing something ?

    I cannot make any new bindings at all to control anything.

    I am running the latest version of loopy , I O dock and IOS and still cannot get it to work.

    Any help would be absolutely great.

    Will keep you guys posted as to how it all pans out.

    Looking forward to some real foot control to unleash the true power of loopy.

  • Hi @charis - it sounds to me like you might be in the wrong section, "Key bindings"; that's for keyboards (Bluetooth). For MIDI, you need to go into the "MIDI" section and tap the circular disclosure button beside the MIDI device you want to configure in the "Control Inputs" section.

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