HELP! Latency with Loopy + ipod Touch

13

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  • Guys, i was using my ipod touch 4g for more than one year, especially amplitube and garageband. There was no latency at all, unless it was i couldn't notice that.
    Then i decided to buy ipod 5g and when i started to use the same apps - the latency couldn't stay unnoticed. So i decided to compare it live because my girlfriend still has 4g with ios5. And i was shocked when her old ipod didn't show no latency at all while the 5th did awful. So there are 2 variants:
    1. Hardware problems.
    2. IOS 6 issues
    Meanwhile i'm trying to find ipod 4g with ios 6 to check if it's hopefuly the 2nd one, otherwise i'm calling you to spam the apple's support because it's unacceptable to sell such unchecked products because the previous version of ipod was brilliant, but slow)
    Still, even if it's hardware issues, i'm sure it can be fixed by software improvements, drivers etc.
    Any help will be appreciated.
    Sorry for awful english, i'm writing from Ukraine)

  • The new version of Loopy came out that fixed the latency on fresh record issue. Has that fixed the issue with the iPod touch 5g or is it official that the iPod 5G is a failure for Loopy?

  • (I'm waiting to hear what others say here, as I don't have an iPad 5G myself)

  • TomTom
    edited April 2013

    I have been testing. If i use only jamup pro on the iPod 5, the latency is unnoticeable.
    But when i use only loopy, the latency is there already. And when i use jamup/audiobus/loopy, it increases just a little more.
    I made a video so you can compare yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTU1Sz2PZcU

    I also tested this on the iPod 4. And notice about the same difference. (did not test with audiobus because of above reason). I wish i could be able to get this tested on my girlfriends ipad3, but all i get is noise when i plugin my guitar.
    There is definitely latency created by loopy. But i would not say it is an failure to loopy. I play quick spanish guitar, and although it is noticeable, it is still just playable.

  • That video's marked private I'm afraid, @Tom.

  • Should be fine now..

  • edited April 2013

    I may go out and get on e and try it but it doesn't sound promising...

  • Thanks @Tom. Do you have a desktop audio editor around, one that can display and select parts of the waveform, and give you the number of milliseconds/samples in a selected segment? I'd quite like to see some actual measurements of the latency you're seeing. Here's how I do it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNR_nWlw8Xs

  • ...My measurements on my iPad 3:

    • Loopy: 16-17ms
    • JamUp: 16-17ms
    • Audiobus Mic into Loopy: 25-30ms
    • JamUp into Loopy: 28ms
  • Well that's clever, Michael. those skills could be used to better mankind ;-)

    I've noticed certain Audiobus setups introduce latency, even on an iPad 2. I don't recall exactly what factors affected it, usually I just close down all apps and try again and it eventually sorts itself out (under 30 ms). It just makes me wonder... maybe it's not necessarily a iPod touch issue.

  • =D

    Hmm, okay - Well, if you see anything in particular I'd love to hear about it.

  • TomTom
    edited May 2013

    Hi Michael, nice to see your face. I downloaded Audacity as i use windows. The iPod 4th gen gives the same readings as you have.

    • Loopy: 17ms
    • Jamup into loopy: 28ms

    But the iPod 5th gen gives me

    • Loopy: 62-64ms
    • Jamup: 58ms
    • Amplitube 63ms
    • Audiobus Mic into loopy: 78ms
    • Jamup into loopy: 78ms
    • Amplitube into loopy: 72ms

    I tested, couldn't believe it, rebooted the ipod 5, and tested again.
    Also i cannot understand the weird difference in amplitube..

    Did apple just bluntly decreased the quality of the sound processor in the newer device, or is there possibly a fix for this?

  • Yikes, good lord! That's brilliant to have those numbers (thanks heaps for doing that!), but sad news for iPod 5 owners.

    I'm not sure what's going on there; I did a search for "ipod 5 latency", and there're two results.. This page, and another on this forum =)

    It could be hardware, or it could be software, but given that other apps exhibit the same problem, it's looking like Apple's problem, and not something we devs can solve ourselves.

  • I'm assuming these times are with wifi turned off, and a fresh boot-up with no apps running? Is that correct? If so, 17ms would be best case for my iPod 4G...

  • This is correct.

    But i played around a lot with the iPod 4, and experienced many crashes when opening apps simultaneous. Remember, it has only 265mb memory compared to 512 in the iPod 5. Also, loopy becomes unresponsive quite frequently when combined with audiobus. So, don't even think about adding a program like Sunrizer to the bus...
    Also, the day to day experience with the iPod 4 is slow. For me this was the reason to upgrade. Also, many times when i click the home button nothing happens. Or i click it once, and the app switcher comes up.
    So, if you plan on not using audiobus, go for it. If you are, i cannot recommend it.

    So far i won't give up on my iPod 5 yet. The latency is noticeable, but i am still able to use it playing fast guitar style.

    Maybe i should contact apple about this problem, hoping they could fix it in an IOS update.

    And if not, i'd rather wait for the new iPad mini with retina display, or even the iPad 5.

  • Hmmm....methinks the iPad "4" (and related mini) might give us some interesting speed with the A6X processor. In theory, about twice as fast as the "3." But it is confounding that the iPod 5G has more latency than the 4G. That's not fair!

  • TomTom
    edited May 2013

    Ipad 4 has an A6X processor. 1.4 GHz dual core "swift", and 1gb ram.

    Ipad mini has an A5 processor. 1 GHz dual core, and 512 ram.
    Exactly the same as the iPod 5 and iPhone 4S, but these 2 are underclocked at 800 MHz.
    It has a low resolution screen, no GPS, a lower resolution camera than the iPod 5 and no flashlight.

  • I contacted apple support, they want me to completely restore my device and test again... I said i will test this on my friends iPod 5, and contact them again.

    I will keep you updated

  • Please do! Good luck.

  • I tested the latency on my friends iPod 5th gen, and i get the same high latency results as on mine. But to be honest, both our iPod 5 are jailbroken.

    I tested the latency on an iPad mini unjailbroken, and i got the same low latency results as your ipad 3th, and my jailbroken iPod 4th gen.

    So the question remains, does the jailbreak does something to the iPod 5, which it doesn't do to the iPod 4? Or is there a real hardware problem.

    I'm curious to find out, but i rely quite a lot on my jailbreak. I have so many tweaks, making the ios work much more convenient, and have a family conversation on whatsapp, which normally does not run on the iPod but the jailbreak makes this possible. I will lose all this if i unjealbreak, and i fear i will not be able to jailbreak again, as the current ios is unjealbreakable.

    Is it an idea to put a request to non-jailbroken iPod 5 owners on this forum to test their latency?

  • NumNum
    edited August 2013

    This is an issue we have with the internal microphone of the 5th gen iPod touch. Reported HW input latency when the input is grabbed from the internal mic is ~50ms. When using a headset with microphone, the reported HW input latency gets down to ~3ms.

    Total roundtrip latency:

    with internal microphone: ~57.3ms
    with headsets with mic: ~10.9ms

    hope this helps.

    EDIT: the roundtrip latency was measured electrically and the engine sample rate was 44.1kHz and the remote IO buffer size was 128 samples.

  • Holy cow! I measured this again with my apple headphones with build in mic, and Num is right.

    Loopy: 17ms

    Jamup into loopy: 26ms

    I'm very puzzled... How come i was able to hear the difference using an iRig similar device. Because of this, i'm now using my iPod 4. I'll get back after i have done more testing.

  • Im getting a bit crazy. I compared the ipod 4 and 5 by tapping my pick on the bridge, then have the computer microphone pick up the real sound, and the one through the speaker. The ipod 4 works as suspected. The iPod 5 with only loopy worked as it should also. But combining Jamup with audiobus into loopy ends up in different readings. I had consequent readings of 17ms, 25ms and 36ms.

    I tried and tried. Been tapping my guitar for about half an hour. It is a bit difficult though seen the volume i produce is quite low, and i need to find the perfect balance in volume.
    The 17ms reading was the most prevalent, but this is too good to be true.

  • Hi, managed to solve the problem of latency with the iPod 5?
    I'm thinking of buying one for use specifically with loopy hd to play live.
    thank you

  • @Ronaldo, i never really went back into it. I use my iPod 4 for Loopy. For what i understand you can use everything perfectly except for the internal mic latency problem. If you want to play live you should use the sound input through the connector anyway. Don't go for something like an iRig. The bass cut off is terrible

  • Hi @Tom, but the latency is only with the input plug p3 microphone? Connect with the USB cable Lightining there would be this problem?

    I use an iphone 4s, but as it is warming much, I'm afraid that he spoil prematurely. So I'm thinking about using an ipod only to play with Loopy.

    I use CCK (camera connection kit) and the Behringer UCA-222 (and a GR-55). The sound in / out is in stereo and with great quality.

    I bought Blueboard but did not see much advantage of a DIY foot QWERTY keyboard. (I made a foot controller from a bluetooth keyboard for iPad). So I think to use the amount invested in Blueboard to buy an ipod 5 (or ipad mini). What do you think?

  • Someone who uses the ipod touch 5 could solve this question? thanks

  • For what i understand the problem is only with the microphone. I tried to test it, but didn't get a proper result cause of the test method. But given the information i have i would go for it. The only reason i'm still on my iPod 4 is i have the iRig MIDI on 30 pin connector.
    But why not go or the iPad mini retina. Got the same specs as the newest iPad air (slightly underclocked only) and its not that much more expensive than the iPod 5

  • edited February 2014

    yeah, I just buy a mini ipad with 3 months of use and I have seen that have more utility for me.

    Is that my initial project would have the iphone or ipod stuck on the guitar body, which could operate with your hands and also with bluetooth pedal.

    image

    Already with the mini ipad, mini even though I will have to rethink about it lol.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Good loops to all :)

  • Ha, thats funny. I was about to stick my iPod to my guitar too, just before i decided to buy an iRig MIDI and a FCB1010.
    What is that roland device on the left?

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