HELP! Latency with Loopy + ipod Touch

edited January 2013 in General

Hi there - I am experiencing latency while using loopy on my new 5th generation ipod touch (enough to make the through signal sound, in the headphones, like there is a chorus effect on it). The loops sound nice and dry, but a through signal with latency is unusable for the live setting.

Does anyone know how to cut down on latency on the ipod touch?
I've tried putting it into airplane mode, turning off bluetooth, and reducing the number of loops from 9 to the minimum 6.

Any help is appreciated - THANK YOU.
-Jesse

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Comments

  • edited January 2013

    Hi Jesse - make sure you have no other apps running when you start Loopy.The latency is caused by a large hardware buffer size (you can read about what hardware buffer size is here), and that is controlled by the first app that you launch.

    If you then launch Loopy afterwards, Loopy won't be able to request a lower latency, so it's important you launch Loopy first.

    This is how to quit apps: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5137

    Note that if you're using Audiobus, you should launch Audiobus first, however, so it can control latency. If you're running on an older device with Audiobus, it'll automatically set a 512-frame hardware buffer size, which is kinder on older devices (which have a more limited processor), but will cause higher latency. If that's the case, you could try setting it to 256 frames via Audiobus' new preferences panel.

  • Thanks for the reply Michael. I tried running only Loopy (closing all other programs). I also bought and installed audiobus and reduced the buffer to 256, but the latency persists (and has not improved).

    I feel like I am going to cry - I just spent over $600 on gear to build this live looping setup (I bought the ipod exclusively to use loopy and cannot return it), and now a fraction of a second in latency has made this system unusable (I cannot get a dry through signal - it sounds like a delay effect).

    Woe = me !

    Could it be my particular ipod touch? Do you know if anyone is using loopy on a 5th gen ipod touch without this issue?

    Thanks again Michael - I appreciate your work.

  • If you haven't already, completely power down your iPod and restart. That fixes many things!

    5th gen ipod should be plenty fast enough. I ran loopy on a 3GS phone for a year.

  • thanks syrupcore. so when you run loopy and are monitoring your through signal in headphones or earbuds, does your voice sound 100% dry, just as though you were speaking through a microphone into a P.A. system? Or is there a slight latency/delay that you can hear?

  • There is a slight latency but I don't hear it.

    Wait, are you sending a direct signal to the PA/amp as well as the Loopy audio pass-through signal? If so, stop! :) Either send everything through loopy and only monitor off the ipod or turn off the audio pass-through in the Loopy settings. I do both, depending on my setup for the night.

  • I'm only monitoring through headphones plugged into the ipod - I just mentioned the P.A. to give a comparison of the kind of 'dry' signal I am hoping for (i.e. a mic going into a P.A.).

    My setup is mic -> Boss VE-20 -> Apogee Jam -> ipod touch -> headphones

    I even hear latency when I just use the internal mic on the ipod though.

    Thanks again for your help. I may just have to live with the latency.

  • I'm only monitoring through headphones plugged into the ipod - I just mentioned the P.A. to give a comparison of the kind of 'dry' signal I am hoping for (i.e. a mic going into a P.A.).

    My setup is mic -> Boss VE-20 -> Apogee Jam -> ipod touch -> headphones

    I even hear latency when I just use the internal mic on the ipod though.

    Thanks again for your help. I may just have to live with the latency.

  • For reference, Loopy's input-to-output latency is expected to be about 10ms (I just measured it then with my iPhone 5, just to be sure)

  • I have an ipod touch 5g and the same problem. Loopy has too much latency. I think it's an hardware issue, noticed that with other programs like thumbjam, when recording audio.

  • Thats weird, i use jamup -> audiobus -> loopy and experience no latency problems

  • Thanks heaps for the video, @braguesa, that's very helpful!

    I've been messing around trying to replicate it, and found something interesting: If I start with a new session (as in, tap the new session button first), then there's no problem. If, however, I load a session (or launch Loopy with an autosaved session in place), then the first time a blank track's recorded, it's a couple hundred milliseconds off - worse, in fact, than in your video.

    So, damn - I'll get this fixed up and release an update soon. Thanks for the heads-up.

  • Tried with a new session, but it didn't work at all. Maybe a latency compensation would do the trick...

  • This makes me wonder, for those of us considering the purchase of an iPod Touch (used or new) vs an iPad (new or used) to use with Loopy, are there differences in performance: e.g. latency and the ability to do "tight" loops? In this thread I am hearing an iPod Touch 5G "may" have issues, but this may be an isolated case?

    I am testing Loopy on my wife's iPad 1G and it has no timing issues, but am considering a used iPod touch (3G or 4G).

  • TomTom
    edited February 2013

    I tested in my ipod 5 and i have the same issue, even if i start a new session (i tried restarting te ipod too).
    I do not have this issue on my ipad 3th gen.
    I never noticed this playing loops with the guitar.

  • edited February 2013

    Minimum hardware audio buffer is 256 samples, so it's not possible to have a no latency device, ipod, iphone or ipad! On ipod touch 5th, there is a 512 default audio buffer, that makes realtime an impossible task. The post latency compensation is the way to go, I think! Garageband has this latency compensation...

  • Yes, zero latency is impossible, but when playing guitar or singing through systems that have adjustable buffers, I find that latency which exceeds 10 ms is bothersome, especially for vocals. That's a perceived delay that is nearly equal to listening to your voice coming out of an amplifier 10 feet away.

    A 256 sample buffer should result in 5.8ms latency when running at 44.1kHz (256/44.1), and a 512 buffer would be 11.6 ms. (Thats if there are no other substantial things going on in the hardware or software that might be having an effect.)

  • It should be like that, on a perfect world! We can expect an higher latency for 256 buffer, on a reel setup. When we get rythmic, it can be very annoying...

  • Dunno if this is related or not, but for those of you with latency issues it might be worth checking this OS "Zoom" setting to see if is is turned on or off, and if that affects anything. I found it on the ThumbJam forum, from a fellow who was having latency problems using ThumbJam on a Touch 4G:

    "Whouaa! cool, I've just found the solution. This is not a bug of your appli but ThumbJam has interaction with the "General" Zoom feature.

    We must deactivate Zoom under:
    Settings>General>Accessibility>Zoom => Off

    I hope it will help a lot of other users"

  • edited February 2013

    My zoom is off, always. I don't think it has to do with that.
    I have no latency with the touch, but using internal mic.

  • braguesa, are you running Audiobus or just Loopy? Loopy works totally fine by itself, but through Audiobus and Magellan is where I run into problems. I want to try another app besides Magellan but don't want to spend the money until I know it works glitch free!

  • I'm using loopy, alone!
    Can you post a video to prove no latency, like I did?

  • What problems do you see with Magellan, @Guitarmadness?

    So, @braguesa, just so I'm clear: You're seeing this loop offset with every loop you record, regardless of whether it's in a new session, or if you've just cleared the loop?

  • Weirdness! Okay, bear with me. I'll try to figure this out.

  • It can be an ipod touch 5th issue, I feel latency with all program dealing with realtime audio in processing!

  • and I got the ipod, mainly for that!

  • edited February 2013

    Ok, my coclusion is: ipod touch 5th audio latency sucks!
    Theres no way of getting rid of it, its an hardware limitation.
    Steve isn´t here to control it...
    :(

  • Hey, Guitarmadness, why don't you make another threat? This is about ipod touch audio latency!!!!

  • I can confirm latency issue with a loaded session on an iPad 1. New session = no latency problem.

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