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Midi sync in issue

Hello @Michael ,
I'm having trouble with clock sync with Loopy as slave.
Synced to external clock, loops fall out of time after running like normal for a little while. They stay 'on the grid', but the start point gets shifted and things don't line up anymore.
I'm not sure what exactly happens to the loops but it happens on multiple different ipads, with multiple different USB-MIDI cables!

Comments

  • Apologies for the delay @Icoustic! That's interesting - I think I'll have to add a diagnostic tool to LP to record your MIDI clock; I suspect something's upsetting it, perhaps. If you stick the metronome on, does it sound regular, or jittery and messed-up?

    Also: Would you mind doing a screen recording for me, showing the start point shift thing? That does sound rather odd...

    You could stick it on YouTube, or Google Drive/Dropbox, or even just email it to me ([email protected])

  • edited July 9

    @Michael said:
    Apologies for the delay @Icoustic! That's interesting - I think I'll have to add a diagnostic tool to LP to record your MIDI clock; I suspect something's upsetting it, perhaps. If you stick the metronome on, does it sound regular, or jittery and messed-up?

    Also: Would you mind doing a screen recording for me, showing the start point shift thing? That does sound rather odd...

    You could stick it on YouTube, or Google Drive/Dropbox, or even just email it to me ([email protected])

    The MIDI clock works fine for other devices I'm sending to, such as an RC-505, RC-202 and Synthstrom Deluge!
    I've also tried with different masters, both hardware and DAW.
    I don't think that's the issue?

    I can do a recording though. But judging by what I just said it should be possible to reproduce in your end, with midi in and letting a synced Loopy loop run for a few minutes. Normal clip settings, nothing fancy.

    I'll send a vid soon

  • @Michael said:
    Also: Would you mind doing a screen recording for me, showing the start point shift thing? That does sound rather odd...

    It is weird indeed, the start point on the donut switches to around 4 o'clock so that that's where the playhead starts from on the synced loop donut when playing from 1 on the master, after the 'shift' has happened.
    Which happens seemingly at random.

  • Yeah, I have tried to reproduce it here with a MIDI clock source - but, being the worst, I haven't been able to yet; that may just be because I don't fully understand what's happening yet. So in theory all I need to do is keep a loop playing, and it'll jump around on its own?

  • @Michael said:
    Yeah, I have tried to reproduce it here with a MIDI clock source - but, being the worst, I haven't been able to yet; that may just be because I don't fully understand what's happening yet. So in theory all I need to do is keep a loop playing, and it'll jump around on its own?

    Yes, in theory. Midi synced loop playing (using USB-MIDI cable), with a master loop as reference to keep the context, and after a while, without fail on my end, the Loopy loop gets flipped and its 1 is no longer aligned with the 1 of the master.

  • edited July 9

    Does the loop actually visibly shift around/rotate its orientation? Is the metronome itself still in time? Or is the whole timeline out?

  • I've had it hooked up to an Arturia Beatstep's MIDI clock for about ten minutes now, and I've not been able to reproduce the issue - it's still properly synced. I think I'll need some diagnostics; I already have the basics in there, just need to hook up some UI. I'll get on that shortly, then hook you up with a build so we can gather some data.

  • edited July 9

    @Michael said:
    Does the loop actually visibly shift around/rotate its orientation? Is the metronome itself still in time? Or is the whole timeline out?

    I'll try with metronome, haven't turned that on.
    And I'll send a vid in a bit

  • edited July 14

    @Michael said:
    I've had it hooked up to an Arturia Beatstep's MIDI clock for about ten minutes now, and I've not been able to reproduce the issue - it's still properly synced. I think I'll need some diagnostics; I already have the basics in there, just need to hook up some UI. I'll get on that shortly, then hook you up with a build so we can gather some data.

    Hey Mic, I didn't get time to look at it until now, my apologies.
    I narrowed it down though! It is related to stopping and restarting the master clock, the thing won't happen until after stopping and restarting clock.
    When I play I often stop and start in time for musical purposes, often like a manual beat repeat (beat 1, that is).
    Loops are shifted/ offset after stopping & starting and messing with the clock, and not until then.

    The master clock devices I use(d) stop sending midi clock when they aren't playing, that's just how they work.
    So after restarting playback and clock again, the Loopy loops get a bit confused, sporadically, and won't stop being weird until I reset clock on Loopy, then start master clock again.

  • Ah thank you! I’ll try that out today

  • Looks like the Beatstep's clock is just too solid - it doesn't do that jumping around of tempo that you describe, and I suspect that alone could adequately explain it losing time, if the clock is particularly noisy.

    In the latest TestFlight beta version, I've added a diagnostic mode. If you could install it (assuming you're on TF, lemme know if not), then open the system settings app, find Loopy Pro, and turn on Diagnostic Mode, then quit and relaunch LP. Then connect your clock and start it. Wait ten seconds or so, stop it. Start it again, wait another 10 seconds; Loopy will be recording the MIDI clock. Then stop it, open Help in Loopy, and tap my email address at the bottom. That'll send me the recording, and I can see if there's anything that can be done!

  • edited July 19

    I'm sure its not the clock being jumpy during playback, I've got several other devices synced to the same clock without issue, including RC-202 and RC-505 as mentioned.

    I'll check out the diagnostic mode asap :)

  • edited July 19

    @Michael said:
    Looks like the Beatstep's clock is just too solid - it doesn't do that jumping around of tempo that you describe, and I suspect that alone could adequately explain it losing time, if the clock is particularly noisy.

    In the latest TestFlight beta version, I've added a diagnostic mode. If you could install it (assuming you're on TF, lemme know if not), then open the system settings app, find Loopy Pro, and turn on Diagnostic Mode, then quit and relaunch LP. Then connect your clock and start it. Wait ten seconds or so, stop it. Start it again, wait another 10 seconds; Loopy will be recording the MIDI clock. Then stop it, open Help in Loopy, and tap my email address at the bottom. That'll send me the recording, and I can see if there's anything that can be done!

    But here's the thing, maybe you didn't understand what I meant;
    the midi clock stream itself from my masters is stopped when stop message is sent, no clock is sent until starting again.
    Make sense? Like I said earlier, the devices I use stop sending midi clock altogether when stop message is sent, so that's why I was thinking it must be related to that.
    And like I said, Loopy playback will stop being weird after I reset clock on Loopy, then start master clock again.

    I'm guessing the beatstep doesn't stop sending midi clock when it sends a stop message.

    Synthstrom Deluge is the main master, and some devices work like that. Midi clock only sent during playback.

  • Yep, I understood - the Beatstep does the same.

  • Hey again @Michael ! I've been away from my rig for a while, but now I'm back in biz.
    Been testing for some hours now (latest update) and I'm not seeing the midi offset thing happen! :)
    Will be testing some more with some other configurations and confirm.

    Also another observation: the lags/ hangs we've been speaking about before - I'm still seeing it on my M1 ipads, but NOT on my (and another) ipad mini 6, i.e. not M1 !
    And I use the same plugins on both :) So I'm guessing some optimizations are needed for running on M1's or something?

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