Panning stereo

@michael,

So I got my Alesis IO4 today and have just been playing around. This version of loopy doesn't yet support 4 inputs as far as I can see, but I'm assuming the update addresses that.

However, having just tried a guitar and mic combo, I noticed that each Loop circle is a stereo representation, in other words. My guitar comes in panned hard left, and the mic panned hard right.

Such is the setup that, if I record guitar on its own, but with both wired up, and then try and pan (Left signal) guitar, the volume drops when I pan it hard right, almost as if I'm mixing from Left Input signal to right input (which in this case was a mic with no sound coming through it), rather than panning my signal from left output to right output.

Sorry it's hard to explain, but essentially I can kill the left guitar signal (when recording in stereo) by panning it right. You would expect panning a left signal right to give you the signal in the right speaker.

Anyone else had this?

Works fine when I record in mono. And panning Audibly goes from left to right speaker.

Comments

  • Hey Ross - This is pretty much the main feature of the coming update, which supports these devices properly =)
  • Figured it might be... god grief I'm impatient for the update to clear Apple and arrive so I can tinker!
  • Hi guys! Finally got set up with my IO4 properly into loopy, and I seem to have the same problem even though I have the latest version of loopy - when I take any two signals together (doesn't look like I can take 4 together yet - recall another forum post saying that may be in the works) - I get one signal with input 1 panned hard left and input 2 panned hard right. Recording mono is fine, but really reduces the flow to 1 input at a time. Is this the expected functionality, or is there some way to make the combined signal remove the left/right pan?

    Also, apologies for the greediness, but any word on when an update allowing input-channel-to-track mapping may surface? Not to mention, actually mapping individual channels within audiobus, but I reckon that's probably a question for another forum...

    Thanks again for the great work Michael :)

  • Hey @gauravps - that pretty much sounds like expected behaviour at this point. Loopy supports multi-channel input only in that you can select between the inputs. It doesn't yet do parallel recording, and although I'd very much like to do this one day, there're a few other things I've gotta do first.
    But I'm keenly aware of the desire for that kinda functionality =)

  • Thanks for the reply @michael.

    Totally understand that multi-channel recording would be more complex and down the list, point taken :).

    As for the current situation - I'm actually fine with both inputs recording to the same track (rather than recording in parallel to separate tracks) - the problem is actually that the inputs are panned hard left/right. Any thoughts on getting around this - perhaps it might be relatively easier to add an option to remove the left/right panning on the signal - almost like a mono input? This would allow me as the user to not have to switch inputs on the fly from input 1 to input 2 - rather it would let me keep both inputs selected, and record guitar or vocals as needed without the hard left/right panning.

    Leaving that (perhaps my understanding of stereo/mono signals is limited and leading me to expect the infeasible), perhaps there could be a midi command mapped that could allow switching between inputs 1 and 2 (or 3 and 4, as the case may be)...this would at least give me the option to have both instrument signals recorded without panning.

    Perhaps there could be a way to do this left/right signal merging via audiobus? I downloaded harmonicdog's multiTrack because it said that stereo signals could be split into mono via the app, but turns out that the loopy signal coming into multiTrack via audiobus is mono, as far as I can tell, so no luck there.

    And last question - if, perchance, you find the time to allow a merged signal that does away with panning the inputs left and right, would be thrilled if you could allow selection of more than two inputs at once...3 or even 4 would make life delightful! Is that a restriction due to hardware reasons or just a limitation that could eventually be removed?

    Thanks for your time!

  • @Michael - just saw your response to Crony on another Alesis IO4 thread, and thought I would bump my request for a less taxing neat-feature-that-michael hasn't built yet ;).

    Basically - cutting to the substance from the message above - the 2 inputs from the Alesis IO4 are panned hard left and right when selected together, making the signal essentially unusable. Would it be possible to have these be panned dead centre as they come in to Loopy?

    I have tried multiple things - checked with Alesis that this is dependent on the app, and also purchased Auria LE to use as an input in Audiobus, that could then route a corrected mono signal to Loopy in output, but still having no luck.

    Am I looking at this wrong? Would be grateful if you could take a few minutes to assess whether this issue is at all fixable or perhaps grounded in the hardware. If it is the latter, then I will investigate getting other hardware that doesn't have this issue, as the entire purpose of getting the IO4 was to input into Loopy.

    Thanks,
    gauravps

  • Lol, I was thinking about modifying the hardware of IO4, but an other temporary workaround is this :
    http://www.boutikazik.com/adaptateurs-connectique/250612-2-adaptateurs-jack-male-stereo-double-jack-femelle-stagg-5414428160911.html

    But I already planned to use this with the 4 inputs of IO4, so actually, I'm building a kind of pyramid on top of two entries of IO4...

  • Hey crony, how is that a workaround, not sure I understand...the issue is with the signal actually going into loopy via USB being panned left/right. How would this jack adapter help?

  • @gauravps - The main problem here is that Loopy only supports mono channel 1, 2, 3 or 4, or stereo 1+2 or 3+4. It doesn't support mixing multiple mono channels together, or recording several channels to different loops in parallel.

    This requires a bit of work to happen, and I've been flat out with my Audiobus responsibilities (and a Loopy bugfix update, which will land soon), so that's why it's not done yet.

    A workaround would be to do the mixing beforehand, which is what that device @crony linked to would do for you: Put two inputs into one.

    I'm keenly aware that people are wanting to do this kind of thing, so I've not forgotten - it's just going to take a little while as there's only me, doing the work of about 4 ;-)

  • Got it, thanks for the explanation @michael - clearly mixing two mono signals into one isn't as simple as I thought :). Appreciate the follow-up and the clarification that it's on the list!

    Your and @crony's point about pre-mixing the signal makes sense - presumably I would still need to get an additional interface that corrects to the ipad in order to use the adapter he has recommended.

    So along this line, a follow up question - it should be possible, in theory, to do this pre-mixing via AudioBus, no? That is, if I use Auria as my input app, have the mixed mono output signal that I like, and then have that land up as the Loopy input?

    For some reason, when I have this chain set up in audiobus, Loopy seems to behave as if it has zero audio input. I even get audiobus crash messages saying something along the lines of "you have messed this shit up uniquely, would you like to send a crash report" in both apps. Any thoughts as to why this set-up wouldn't work in AudioBus? I can definitely hear the output from Auria via headphones, but it doesn't seem to make it into loopy. It's almost like I need to be able to set Loopy to accept the AudioBus input.

    FYI, when I disconnect Auria from my audiobus chain, then loopy resumes using the IO4 multi-channel interface as an input. When I have Auria connected, then Loopy switches to zero input.

    Any thoughts?

  • I think the trick is to get the input into Audiobus first. I have an iO4, and Loopy fully supports this interface... but audiobus doesn't... it only has 'microphone input' (even though I have iO4 connected). microphone input' seems (but I'm not sure) to default to picking up the stereo (main?) output from the iO4. BUT, some apps, like JamUp are only mono- don't know about Auria, but it could do a similar thing with limiting signal to mono, like JamUp does for me. This is more (I think) an Audiobus problem than a Loopy issue (because I wish Audiobus had the support for my interface that Loopy does), Gary

  • This is actually something I'm planning for Audiobus - in fact, it was there in an early build, but I had some problems with the audio session at the time that necessitated its removal then.

    But I do plan to replace the one microphone input with some additional inputs when a multichannel input device is detected - a bit like Loopy, where you can select each individual channel, or stereo pairs. Or, I suppose, some more sophisticated mixing like Gary proposes.

    Given that Audiobus's audio engine is the same system Loopy itself uses, Loopy and Audiobus support for this kinda stuff should happen relatively close together.

    I can see the need for it, though, and think I'll probably bump it up in priority.

  • Thanks Gary and Michael - good to know! So you're telling me that because audiobus doesn't support multi-channel interfaces as an input yet, the IO4 can't be set as the input - fair enough. But I imagine that even setting it as the input would not help much in this case as the signal would still have the stereo-pan issue.

    However, considering that Auria DOES support multi-channel interfaces, setting it as the input should yield at least SOME, single-channel output into Loopy, as opposed to zero signal, right? Still a bit lost as to that one...@michael, if you don't mind, will email you the crash data that I get when using Auria as the input and Loopy as the output, because in this case Auria should be taking care of the mixing-stereo-to-mono logic.

    A related question on interfaces - I just saw @marcdetriumphe's awesome looped video that you shared on the atastypixel blog - and he's doing exactly what I'm shooting for i.e. Guitar and Vocals input onto one track via a USB interface. You mentioned he's using the FireFace UCX - does this mean that the FireFace simply doesn't work the same way as the IO4 and delivers it's USB signal with both input signals mixed down to mono? In that case, appears that the IO4 was quite a waste...unless this Auria-Audiobus scenario is workable, may be time to shop for a new interface.

    Maybe it's just my lack of experience, but is this the normal behaviour for stereo output from a USB interface - panned hard left/right, or is this peculiar to the Alesis IO4? If so, then which part of an interface's specs would even help me determine whether it can output the desired mono signal via USB?

    Thanks!

  • @gauravps - in response to the last paragraph, this is the normal behavior. Unless there is some sort of mixer at the front, the assumption is that 1 input signal to a track will be mono ( or in some software recorded as stereo, but the same signal ), 2 input signals to one track will be stereo, but the assumption is that the source is already stereo ( stereo microphone, effect output like stereo chorus, etc..). What you are wanting/needing is a mixer front end. Perhaps Auria-AudioBus is the answer ( don't know much about Auria, except what their web page tells), if not, then hardware may be your only solution.

  • Hi, i 'm using alesis io4. I'm Recording with one micro. metronome is mono on center but each recorded track is on left. i try to change the button mono/stereo on alesis but it 's the same. I don 't see the utilitily of the buttons left, right, lift-right on loopy. Someone can help me please ?

  • After you plug in the io4, scroll through the screens on the main loopy bar (transport, tempo...). One of those screens will allow you to select and input from the io4. It defaults to stereo 1&2 but you can specify an individual input from that menu.

  • Man, this is the one thing keeping me from jumping on the Loopy bandwagon and using it live. Any change on this, by chance?

  • Okay people, I think I've found a solution - at least for my currently dual input purposes (that's not what she said).

    I'm using the Alesis IO4 with one microphone and one guitar input. Setup is Audiobus with Vocalive and Amplitube (both have free versions) as the inputs, leading into Loopy as the output.

    The beauty is that both Vocalive and Amplitube allow you to select which input channel to use on the IO4 - so by the time the Signal gets to Loopy, it's no longer in the "Extreme Stereo" mode.

    Now looking forward to being able to set individual audiobus inputs into loopy to separate tracks! :-D

    Incidentally, I would still be interested to know of other hardware solutions that might work well for such a setup if one wanted to add another instrument. One of the issues is that all channels still keep recording at all times into the loopy input - maybe a mixer would allow me to easily mute individual channels?

  • i know it's very old thread, but i have the same problem. The fact that recorded channels panned hard left and hard right makes it useless to have a stereo audio interface for me to make a live looping. I can only use one input of my audio card ;(
    We need "mono mode" or something like that. Is anybody was able to resolve this problem?

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