Loopy: Masterpiece Edition - the journey begins

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  • Not so much, @dicey - at least, not right now. There's been a Facebook poll for a while, but I'm not checking that so much any more since I've initially gone through it for the initial Masterpiece design. Here's probably a good a place as any to make requests, for the moment!

  • One effect that Ableton has that I would find useful (and probably others would too) is the beat repeat effect:

    "Beat Repeat
    creative beat mangling with controlled or randomized repetitions of an incoming signal"

    It's great for adding fill-like beats to your music and break up the redundancy of a song.

    I don't know if there is an app that does this, but would be a cool trigger in Masterpiece!

  • Beat Repeat is featured in the new LoopTree app, which is very cool, but unfortunately the app doesn't send midi clock - which is a game-changer for me. Some sort of Beat Repeat in Masterpiece would be incredible!

  • I saw that @Alan. I'm so used to Loopy and it's workflow, I don't think I could ever switch. That being said, the beat repeat feature seems very cool and similar to Ableton. I think it's something Michael will consider.

  • Totally agreed! =)

  • Hi Michael,
    Something which would really help me and my fellow band members would be a counter which displays the current bar within the cycle. For example, if the overall cycle is set to 32 repeats, then it would really help us know where we are at any point in time by have the visual counter cycle from 1 to 32 and then repeat etc. The current method of using the light around the small circle is not working well for us because it isnt granular enough....and the consequences of getting it wrong can be disastrous in the middle of a performance. Using a numerical counter to support the glowing light would be very useful.

    My group currently has 5 loopstations sync'd via MIDI Clock. For occasions when budget permits an additional band member, we may have an additional 2 loopstations in the system. Now that Loopy syncs beautifully with external MIDI Clock it has returned to being the heart and soul of my "system", but when multiple musicians are creating live loops by playing instruments, it becomes really important for us to know where we are within the parameters of the song. Confidence is everything. It seems to me that a suggestion by htmx to dupe my Loopy screen to a separate display so the other guys can see it makes a lot of sense - Loopy has a dedicated iPad, so it is always visible (ie I dont do any app switching on the Loopy iPad)

    This could be done in Loopy standard as well as Masterpiece. The proposal is possibly only useful for those of us who sync Loopy to an external MIDI Clock from a master device (in our case an RC505 playing 4 or 8 bar loops, typically). In my band, the RC505 always plays re-cooked loops of real drumming before other instruments are recorded into Loopy. IOW, the first loop in our songs is always a drum loop which isn't recorded into Loopy, but when I'm talking about recording the "first loop" in this post, I'm talking about the first loop recorded into Loopy while sync'd to the master loop playing in the RC505.

    I've been hunting for tools/apps which could display the MIDI Clock separately to Loopy, but the MIDI Clock doesnt know anything about the 32 cycles in my example above. Only Loopy knows, so I need to share that info with other members. The data already exists, but it's not displayed progressively in a manner which provides the user with sufficient accuracy for songs with long cycles. I"m not proposing to consume UI real estate with the counter - what I'm suggesting could be done by activating the cycle number which has been entered, so that it counts through the cycle and repeats (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 etc etc) instead of sitting there as a static number.

    The counter should commence immediately upon being set, just like the glowing light immediately adjusts to cycle parameter changes. This would make it much easier to manage counting in the first loop while using the binding for immediate punch-in.

    An additional parameter would seal the deal, probably applicable only to the first loop - a binding to toggle record and immediately reset the counter position (and therefore the playback cursor) to 1 without changing the cycle duration. If a cycle is very long, missing the start makes it very difficult to get back to 1 without either waiting through the entire cycle or manually resetting the cycle manager (potentially breaking things for everyone). Implicit in this is the assumption that it's always best to have the cycle start/finish at midnight. For example, if I set a 32 cycle count and then miss the start, I could punch in at 3PM, but then the loops are no longer starting/finishing at midnight (which is sorta kinda not a complete showstopper but it's far from ideal intuitively and therefore increases confusion potential)

    I'm all for reducing Confusion Potential (is that a good band name?)

    Apologies if any part of my suggestions above is already available in Loopy or already requested for future builds.

    Thanks!

  • Firstly:

    Now that Loopy syncs beautifully with external MIDI Clock it has returned to being the heart and soul of my "system"

    *general whoops and cheers* - this is damn good to hear. I don't get a lot of feedback on the new syncing stuff, so I'm thrilled to hear it's actually working well! Sounds like The Spectacular Sync Engine might be about ready for wider release, then =)

    Using a numerical counter to support the glowing light would be very useful.

    Yeah, that sounds great! That'd be easy to show in the play/levels panel 'cos there's no number in the loop indicator right now. The loop length panel, probably need to find a way to show both, because I still want to display the total length. I'm actually totally revising that whole panel system anyway (it's dumb, just dumb, and I can do much better), so I might work this into the new design.

    If a cycle is very long, missing the start makes it very difficult to get back to 1 without either waiting through the entire cycle or manually resetting the cycle manager (potentially breaking things for everyone).

    Good point; I can see how that'd be troublesome. My preference would be to find a way to Just Do The Right Thing, if that's even possible, rather than forcing users to deal with it via a separate trigger. Just to make sure I'm clear on the specifics, would you go into more detail, with a scenario where this happens?

  • Sure - will do that later today after our next rehearsal which starts in about 5 mins (!) :)

    We are in WA, by the way, down Margaret River way, so a couple of hours behind your time zone, but same country!. Would be very happy to give you a call sometime to discuss if you're interested.

    And yes, it's SO FABULOUS that external sync is now rock solid. Thanks for all your efforts on that front. It hasnt gone unnoticed!

    Masterpiece will rule the loopstation world for pro musicians, no doubt.

    Diggo

  • Cool! Oh, nice, that's a really lovely area!

    And cheers =)

  • I'd like to be able to use Loopy loops on the Novation Launchkey pads. :-) I'm making a teaching tool based on looping. (iPad air 2/itrack dock/Launchkey controller/Rhode NT2/etc).

    I've missed something: what's the bit rate of the Loopy loops?

    Thanks Michael for your brilliant work.

    PS What about a competition for the best "Here we go Loopy Loop" song.

  • edited August 2015

    I agree! Definitely something I'm working on for Masterpiece.

    Bitrate: 44100kHz * 2 channels * 16 bits per channel = 1411200 bit/second (1.4 megabit).

    Excellent idea - funny you should mention it, I'm announcing a competition shortly!

  • edited October 2015

    First time poster- I've been using loopy for about a year now and just love it! Just wondering where the "sequencer" idea stands? Years ago I had an Ensonique TS-12 that utilized a sequencer that I used live. I'd pre-record "song sections (intro, verse, chorus, outro", and then if I wanted to vamp over the chorus for I while I'd just leave it on that section. Then when I was ready to move on I,d click on the next section and then when the 1 count came around, it would go to that next section. Kind of the same thought the way my Alesis SR drum machines work with pattern A, pattern A Fill, pattern B, Pattern B fill. Sorry if I'm kickin a dead horse, just reading through all the posts and getting up to speed on where the project stands.

  • Just thinking out loud and took the license to create an image (see attached) to illustrate my point.... add buttons for the sequencer function that you could turn off and on in preferences so that if you didn't want sequencer function they wouldn't clutter the screen. Be able to label each sequencer track (I labeled mine intro, verse, and chorus for illustration). When I press the "intro" button then I've got 12 (or 9 or 3) fresh tracks to work with. When I press "verse" button then I've got another fresh (empty)12 or 9 or 3 tracks to work with, and the same with the "chorus" button.

  • edited October 2015

    Thanks @gbmann =)

    Grouping in Masterpiece should take care of the lion's share of this, but also take a peek at the 'sequence tracks' entry on the Masterpiece blog:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9y5RnDWUoY

  • The grouping of tracks is the one thing that I am missing in Loopy HD right now. I purposely limited my foot pedal to four buttons to avoid the "tap dancing" that you mention, but without a grouping feature I usually have to think hard about the concessions I make. Tap dancing is probably the greater of the two evils, but I'd rather not have to think that hard about my choices, either. I think grouping will hit that sweet spot in between.

    Speaking of which, do you have an update on when Masterpiece might arrive?

  • I don't, I'm afraid - last week or two I've made great progress, but it's still far enough out that I don't have a clear idea. I know, I know. I said it was ambitious =)

  • @lukesleepwalker said:
    The grouping of tracks is the one thing that I am missing in Loopy HD right now.

    I'm assuming LoopyME is quite a long way away. Luke, as a workaround in the meantime you might look into MIDI Designer Pro. Its a MIDI app that can receive a single MIDI command (from foot pedal) and send out multiple commands (to a group of Loopy tracks). Its easy to set up and will run in the background on your iPad controlling Loopy.

  • Thanks, will check it out!

  • edited November 2015

    Dude my mind is blown after reading all of this shit! A little over whelming as I've been always wanting to do all the things I've been reading but have been a bit "hand cuffed" Im a live looper in Denver Colorado using a rc-50 and haven't even got the gear for Loopy To play live with But this all sounds incredible. So i will be acquiring some equipment and changing over cause this all sounds like a dream come true lol! So my point in saying this is that i will have many stupid questions to come! Half the things you talk about and use I've never even looked at. So please be patient and get ready for some pretty basic questions. This all sounds amazing. I have a Behringer mixer and I'm downsizing from having a keyboard and Varian. So now I'm just going to beatbox, vocal harmonizing, and have light effects on my acoustic.

    --So from what i see I'm probably wanting-
    The Focus Right I Dock Track or Behringer IDock?

    Any preferences on any of these? Or any thing better?

    --It kinda looks like the Behringer FBC 1010 may bigger and easier to feel??
    As opposed to the "soft steps" although they are very cool to look at.

    Any preference on either of these? Or anything better?

    --And then theres AUDIOBUS Which i haven't even looked at yet.....
    So not sure how that routes and don't know anything about it honestly.

    So ill start there and its nice to meet all of you. Its nice to find aplace where people speak my language and know far more than i do.

    P.S. When will Masterpiece be Ready??

    Im waiting for some a couple pics to load which aren't all that great. But any comments welcome good or bad.

    My website is www.dave-connelly.com for videos info and again great to meet all of you!

  • I can answer at least one of those:

    P.S. When will Masterpiece be Ready??

    At this point I'm looking at 6-9 months to go, but don't hold me to that =)

    The FCB1010 is super-popular, so pretty sure you'd be happy with one of those. I don't have one myself, I just hear people singing its praises, though (full disclosure: I'm not a looper at all, and actually barely knew anything about it when I started Loopy way back, so I tend to lean heavily on this rather wonderful community of folks for knowledge!)

  • Sorry for some reason i did not see the video. I some hounded up on the second page and watched the video after my comment. Yea its pretty awesome and a different level of looping. Look forward to moving forward with it. Thats pretty crazy you're not a looper and you designed all of this lol. Amazing.

  • Another question??
    Would i be able to set up say the front five pedals of the Behringer FBC 1010 to:
    Rec/Play/Stop - Then play again once stepped on again
    or
    Rec/Rec again on top/ Play and stop?

    Again I'm coming over from the RC-50 which as far as what I read doesn't have a fraction of the options?

    Right now i record multiple Tracks on Phrase 1, and 2, and 3 and have 3 external pedals to just act as on and off switches per each phrase set in a triangle formation. So i can turn 1, 2, or 3 on separate from one another, 2 phrases at a time, or three phrases at a time. Then all on or off.

    Hope that makes sense!

    Thanks for any input!

  • I'm not exactly sure what you mean @Dave79, but the Toggle Mute function does something similar. It acts as a record button first, then it converts basically to a play/stop button after. You could then use the hold function to add overdubs if you choose. That's the way my FCB functions.

  • That actually is what I was wanting to know. That's awesome. I'm trying to get as many pedals to fungi on that way as possible. I haven't even got the gear yet but will in the next week or so. I've been using the boss RC-50 to perform and am lacking a lot of versatility from the sounds of it.

  • @Dave79 let me know if you have any questions as I do something very similar with my 10 pedals

  • Cool man!! Thanks for you input! Do you play live out at places? I've been playing out live and am curious about the performance of loopy and how it sounds. I'm getting the Behringer Istudio and I beat box and layer harmonies, with my guitar. So I had a mixer which made it possible with my last set up. Let me know what you think or any ideas you might have!

  • Yes. I do something similar. I beatbox (with AUFX: Limiter EQing the hi-ends out and the low ends up; sounds amazing), play Handsonic, guitar, and later vocals (although I use my G-XT for harmonies most of the time).

    I use two inputs on my soundcard. One is just vocals, the other is an AB Box that has my guitar and Handsonic. Works great because I can mute the vocals so there is no bleed through.

    Loopy is extremely reliable and has never crash on me during a performance. I don't push it with synths and effects, but do use a couple.

    I use the Behringer FCB1010 to control everything for now, but am currently creating a new custom midi board.

  • Right on man! You sound like you have a lot more technical knowledge then myself. So I appreciate your input!!!! I have about 5,000 questions lol. Where do you live by the way? I'm in Colorado. So can you set all 10 pedals up to....
    A) Start Recording
    B) hold down to overdub
    C) then use that same pedal as a stop start
    D) also can you quantize tracks so the 1st track is 1 measure long and if the 2nd track is 4 measures long they will sync? I had the Boss table top looper that would sync tracks of different lengths. BUT it's a table top unit that you can't use with your feet. Which sucks cause that's the best looper they've built and you can't use it with your feet. So anyways cheers and hope you had a great weekend!

  • Okay, let me try to answer.

    Pedal 1: Toggle Mute (Will record when empty, mute & unmute when there is something recorded on it)
    Pedal 1 (Hold): Overdub

    There is a difference here with mute/unmute than start and stop. The loop will continue to run in background while muted, just won't be heard. I have a pedal that is my master on/off. It is bound to the function "Pause and Restart at the beginning"

    As for your last question, here's how I have it set up.

    Settings - Track Management - Count Out - Disabled

    What this does is allows me to freely record any amount of measures over each other and still be in sync. For example, I'll record a basic two bar beat box, then over top a four bar bass line, a one bar guitar riff, and an 8 bar vocal track. When I press record, it will record at the top of the first loop, the second time I press record, it will stop recording at the end of that measure. This allows you to do odd measures as well.

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