Loopy: Masterpiece Edition - the journey begins

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  • @Michael said:

    Yeah, that could be cool. How do we distinguish between those two intentions though!

    I got nothing; other than 'yet another setting'. :/

  • It occurs to me that there might be an additional nice-to-have group type: chained. Put 4 loops in a chained group and they will play one after another.

  • I think chaining might need a bit more flexibility. @eccecello (or is it @ecce_cello? David, you have two accounts, you greedy bugger!) mentioned that he'd like to be able to do arbitrary loop sequencing, like 3 x loop 1, then 2 x loop 2 and 1 x loop 3, repeat.

    I originally thought this could be provided for in the Arrange screen, but really that's for saving and editing performances, not for sequencing performances themselves. There needs to be something else - maybe triggers that can loop ("Repeat" action?), but I dunno.

    I'm gonna address that topic in a post of its own, cos I think it's a kinda big deal!

  • edited November 2014

    Yeah maybe a sequencer track type that could be added as an option on the design screen just like any other track? Maybe include both a "live" and more manual "step" way of configuring the sequence.

    It would be cool if the sequencer track(s) could be pre-configured and saved in a song's session template, then live record the audio to the same track locations as set in the sequence, so the main song format is all pre-set but all of the audio is still recorded live per performance.

    Or choose to put the entire song on rails where you use one midi button to step through all of the pre-set sequenced steps which would take care of all the track managing for you! Or maybe this is all already possible in the new binding configuration you've already developed...

  • Oh, I like that! It does make sense to have the sequence stuff happening on the workspace, nice and visible. My first reaction was reluctance, but now I think about it, this might be really nice. I need to think about it more for a while.

    Sequenced binding steps! Ah, I'd forgotten I was going to do that.

  • edited December 2014

    If the sequence track behaved like any other track type and is located on the workspace, then it could use other track options (such as having a group of sequencer tracks where only one plays at a time) and be easily accessible and provide some live automation control for people who don't use midi bindings.

    Since Loopy MPE is now essentially a multi-channel/track DAW, and inputs/tracks aren't all being combined and dumped into a stereo output, having the tracks sequenced would allow you to build song parts separately on different tracks and have them play back as added/removed musical layers. Add the shaker and layered vocals to the last chorus only. Add that quirky ambient intro guitar solo behind the second verse but not the first. A sequence could make this type of stuff easy to do in a live setting without tap dancing and greatly reduce the number of buttons required on a midi controller, while still providing a level of spontaneity that baked pre-recorded tracks do not.

    Regarding the other control options (faders) you are planning to add to the workspace, maybe those could be automated too so that effects could also be controlled by the sequence. The sequencer track could be the solution that takes live looping to an entirely new level - allowing one to focus more on the performance and audience instead of managing the looper. Powerful stuff!

  • @Michael I just want to say that for me it would be really great to be able to manipulate the loops live and play around non destructively by scratching, pitching, stretching, and doing that kind of mpc-ish dj-ish stuff to things I actually just played. That would be soooo cool! I know you might have singer-songwriter folks in mind more than beat/electronic people but this would really give a whole new direction to loopy.

  • @Ringleader: Holy crap, that's amazing. Okay, you win the best suggestion of the year award =)

  • @Munibeast: True, that would be a lot of fun! Do you have any performance examples of the live pitching/stretching stuff, just so I know for sure what we're talking about there?

  • edited November 2014

    @Michael I was thinking about scratching in the first place since you already have the circular design resembling an LP in place. Seeing the actual waveform would make the scratching even better than in other apps such as ScratchDisc (which you could take a look at for further inspiration, it's freemium). Also, some synced glitch and stutter FX similar to Glitchbreaks or DrumJams bedlam for example, would be awesome. So in a live performance one could do things like: 1. lay down basic beat, 2. Warp the beat with stuttering, pitching up and down parts, scratching a snare drum..., 3. Add some chords and bass, 4. manipulate those playing them as one shots and or loops (i)mpc(pro) style in little slices and moving loop points around... 5. same thing with melodies, vocals and such, treating them more like DJs would. I know it would get complicated and hard to combine with the way loopy is controlled now. But maybe there could be a special "freak out mode" for these things? I would love to see some functionality like that!

  • Nice, thanks @Munibeast - I'll have a think about if/how I could work something like that in.

  • Thanks, I know you'll come up with something fantastic!

  • Nice one Ringleader, I like that a lot!

    How about adjustable loop quantisation settings?
    Assuming clock is running, standard behaviour with commands like Record --> Play require have to be triggered BEFORE the bar to happen on the bar.
    What if instead there was a setting to, in practice, apply quantisation to the action so you could press any where between bar 1 beat 3 and bar 2 beat 1 to trigger the loop to on the start of the second bar. If you press on bar 2 of beat 2 though it would start playing immediately, in time as if it had started playing on beat 1.

    With standard behaviour at times I find the tap dance intense enough to be a touch late to trigger a loop to play/overdub/rec (resulting in bar late), or that having to think about when the last bar of the loop would be because I am counting in half or double time and I'll trigger a loop a bar early (resulting in bar early). That extra beat or 2 can make all the difference between a smooth performance and having to rebuild something with some serious bluff checks!

  • Meant to say this months ago, but i've been too busy looping! Thank you so much Michael - you and Loopy have made me a happier more creative person.
    I have been looping since the early 90s using Digitech, Line 6, Headrush, Boss RC50, & then (dream come true), i got an Echoplex Digital Pro (all in a cupboard since Loopy).
    I love all the new ideas about editable waveforms, but can take or leave the routing stuff. Something that cropped up in your video on new ideas for bindings/trigger/quantization settings, took my mind back to the EDP.

    The Echoplex had a feature where you could use replace (you talked about this as a new feature) that could be quantized to say, 8th notes. This meant that when you played a drone (or anything) over the top of a loop & tapped the record/overdub pedal (randomly), you could create useful rhythmic gating effects, as the overdubbed/replaced material only got recorded when the pedal was down (wouldn't work with toggle, i guess).

    There was also a feature where you could 'insert' into a loop at any point (quantized or not), which changed the length of the loop (say if you added something in the middle). i'd have guessed this would have been hard to implement, but some of the new stuff you talked about sort of leads in that direction.

    Anyway, keep up the great work.

  • edited December 2014

    It just occurred to me that it may be a good idea to do a mac version too, while you're at it. Maybe as a vst plugin? Standalone wouldn't be too useful, I guess, unless one could run other plugins within that (and that would be awesome). Just an idea... With the better stability and processing power of a mac versus iOS this might be a great live tool running on iMacs, MacBooks and mac minis. I even have a nice touch screen on mine. I'd definitely buy a mac version , if you made one.
    Also you could charge much more per copy than on iOS. And with the increased screen real estate some additional panels could be used for routing, volume, panning and all that...

  • @Syph said:
    What if instead there was a setting to, in practice, apply quantisation to the action so you could press any where between bar 1 beat 3 and bar 2 beat 1 to trigger the loop to on the start of the second bar. If you press on bar 2 of beat 2 though it would start playing immediately, in time as if it had started playing on beat 1.

    I'm happy to consider it! Sounds a bit scary to me though, to change something like that so much...

  • @Paulo_F said:
    Thank you so much Michael - you and Loopy have made me a happier more creative person.

    Thank you!

    The Echoplex had a feature where you could use replace (you talked about this as a new feature) that could be quantized to say, 8th notes. This meant that when you played a drone (or anything) over the top of a loop & tapped the record/overdub pedal (randomly), you could create useful rhythmic gating effects, as the overdubbed/replaced material only got recorded when the pedal was down (wouldn't work with toggle, i guess).

    Wow, talk about niche =) But yeah, I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be possible, with putting it into a replace record mode and setting up the quantization to 8ths/etc. Would need to set up record to start on press and stop on release, but that's fine. Particularly with this idea I've had for trigger scenes, where you can change control sets on the fly.

    There was also a feature where you could 'insert' into a loop at any point (quantized or not), which changed the length of the loop (say if you added something in the middle). i'd have guessed this would have been hard to implement, but some of the new stuff you talked about sort of leads in that direction.

    Hmm, that gives me the wiggins slightly, but maybe I could figure out a way to make it work, if folks wanted it.

  • @Munibeast said:
    It just occurred to me that it may be a good idea to do a mac version too, while you're at it.

    A few folks have mentioned that... I really think it's beyond me. I don't wanna make this app twice, at least not at this point; it's already way ambitious =)

  • @Michael I see, that totally makes sense. But maybe it would be something to reconsider some time in the future (in case you get bored ;-)). You might be able do something like that as a collaboration instead of on your own. Until then I guess I'll use ableton live 9 on the mac and loopy on iOS.

  • @Michael Yeah, I appreciate how different that workflow is! There more I have thought about it though, the more "simple" the idea seems. I like to think that we are off setting the loops reaction zone relative to the loops play point. But thats just me XD

    The quotations are around SIMPLE because when it strikes me that the interesting part to implement would be setting up something like an buffer to hold what has been played since the bar started in case you started recording/overdubbing from beat 2. That way what was played on beat 1 would be recorded.

    For what it's worth, I like both work flows. I enjoy standard bar based quantising for drums/bass but prefer the adjusted behaviour for melodic/harmonic/ambient/textural content.

  • Actually, the implementation's no problem – Loopy already does this, in order to be able to provide a nice smooth microfade into the recording without truncating the start! So - just a matter of figuring out how to offer that kind of behaviour.

    Something I love about Masterpiece so far is that I can add something like this as an action, and hide it away in the actions catalog. So it doesn't have to interfere with the app's workflow. It could even be a parameter of the "Toggle Record" action, perhaps.

  • Loopy masterpiece would complEtely redefine my music making experience. ..its already become the soul of my live performance and my selling point

    Heres a link to my recent performance

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCoc_4ZxRYM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  • Duuuuuude, that was brilliant! Loved it! Thrilled to see Loopy part of something that awesome =)

  • edited December 2014

    after some months of important life changes, i hope from now on i can pay more attention to this exciting and thrilling journey. uuuhhhhhhhh

    btw! this is my true account, the other is fake!! ...made by my self, but by a fake part of my self. (the truth is i lost the password, and the password of the associated mail account... and i just decided to create a new one. i only use ecce_cello).

  • edited December 2014
                     _______quantized tweaking tracks_______
    

    let's say you record 3 loops in different tracks, playing/singing the notes in the hard beats. each beat will sound in fact as a chord, as each sound is placed one over the other. but if you could tweak each track (this gesture using two fingers...) within a given quantization grid, it would, with a small and super-fast gesture, allow you to create intricate counterpoint polyrhythms and arpeggios, from a very simple and easy to create audio material.

    is this being considered before? do you guys find it interesting?

    i already worked this way in the past, but adjusting by ear each track by ear until reached (by ear...) the desired beat or counterpoint... but doing this during a live performance is not pleasant, neither for the audience, nor for the performer. and takes time. i would love to be able to tweak my loopy tracks in a given (per track) quantization grid. :D

  • I haven't combed through this topic to see if it's been suggested already, but I would love it if Loopy had an easy way to add effects to individual loops, without leaving the app (reverb, changing the pitch an octave, distortion, etc.)

    I realize that I can do this using Audiobus, but 1) it's complicated -- I still haven't figured out how to do this right; 2) it's multiple steps, and creates dead air in live performance

    (Maybe others have figured out how to make it work live. If so, I'd love to know! :))

  • edited December 2014

    @ecce_cello It is indeed something I'm thinking about, quantized offset =)
    @a_creative_life Yep, that's in there.

  • as I mentioned before, Loopy changed my life! It's how I produced an entire EP of original music using just one instrument - the harmonica. What I would like to see is the ability to integrate videos. I use the Alesis i/o dock to plug into a PA system. It has video output jacks. If I plugged them into a projector, you'd see what I see on my loopy app screen. That's all fine and dandy, but what if you could play an original video that's seen by the projector. Meanwhile, the loopy screen remains the same in front of me. Is that even possible?

  • Somebody mentioned the ability to scratch a track turntable style. I actually like this idea a lot. One possible implementation would be for a certain gesture (such as double finger tap and hold) to cause a track to switch to a different view where only the chosen track is available for scratching at an enlarged size. Maybe something like the loading screen when the Loopy HD is first launched. The other tracks could have mini representations just so you can keep an eye on where you are in the mix. There should be a reset button to revert back to the pre-scratch state so you don't have to waste time trying to reset it manually. Maybe Ecce_Cello's idea of quantized offset could also be controllable from the scratch view.

  • edited January 2015

    GROOP MODE/FEATURE:

    I'm wondering if one would be able to run a single session of loopympe on an iPad, but have other iPads or iPhones acting as controllers for the session. For example, iPad 1: master; iPad 2: mixing layout open; iPad 3: live layout ( so drummer for example could trigger loops, trigger rec etc ); iPad 4; live layout but alternate widgets etc

    You could have multi mirror mode. So all the others act as controllers for the master iPad or device. And you could have collaboration mode, where eventually, of course with an accurate sync method, everyone could build/rec ( on each of their devices ) together and pass loops.

    This would enable a truly collaborative experience, and the expansion and use of multiple devices. This would be what I call Grooping, instead of Looping.

    Also...

    Metronome mix: would like to control the level of the metronome to each output.

    Pan spread: would be nice to spread the pan instead of just simple left right controls

    Love what you are doing.

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