Sequencing Loop in Live

edited April 2012 in General
Hello,
I am just starting with Loopy and I love the app and the look&feel.
However, I am not able to find out documentation about features.
Have I missing any url?

My expectation is the following:
Starting with a loop I would like to tap another one so that the currently played stops when its end is reached and then the tapped one starts regardless its current position in the cycle.
Does the count in/out function supports that? Any other way?

Thanks by advance for your support (Michael).

Comments

  • Thanks, @Ernadote!

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the tapped one stars regardless of its current position in the cycle". Here's what I thought you meant:

    1. You have one loop (Loop 1), already recorded, and playing.
    2. You tap a new loop (Loop 2).
    - Loop 1 will stop playing at the end of the loop.
    - Loop 2 will begin recording immediately (when you tap).

    You can accomplish this. Here's how:

    - Make sure "Count-In/Out Mute" is on.
    - Tap Loop 1
    - If you have "Count-In Recording" on, then:
    - Tap Loop 2, then 2-finger tap Loop 2 (1-finger-tap + 2-finger-tap), and it will begin recording immediately.
    - If you don't have "Count-In Recording" on, then just tap Loop 2.

    See "Advanced gestures" under "Help" for more info.
  • Michael, Thanks for the answer.

    But this not exactly what I meant.
    In fact, I would like to use the tool as a loop player so the loops are pre-recorder and I sequence them live.
    So, each loop is self-sufficient and I want to reduce gesture (since I'm playing piano meanwhile).
    My idea, is the second loop is tapped to be read, not to be recorded.
    With the minimalist gesture in mind, I expect to tap the next loop that'll start it once the currently played is finished.
    Am I more clear? (sorry, not native English).

    Btw, this mode induces the input mic is off but I can't find to set it off.
    Btw2: I've seen some videos about loopy2, still in the pipe?
    Btw3: I'm impressed by your reactivity :-)
  • Hmm, I'm afraid I'm still having some trouble understanding, but I'll take another stab: Do you mean you want one gesture to both mute one track, and start playing a different track, at the end of the current loop cycle? If so, I'm afraid that isn't possible at the moment - you'll need to tap the currently-playing track to mute it at the end of the cycle, and tap the track you want to start playing at the end of the cycle. Watch some of the user videos at http://loopyapp.com/featured-artists if you want to see how the app's used a bit more.

    I don't understand the "induces the input mic is off" part, I'm afraid.

    Loopy 2 was released in 2011 - you're already using it.

    And thanks =)
  • "Do you mean you want..." : Exactly, you get it!
    My concern is the second cycle must start when the current stops but cycles are not always based on the same duration; sometimes the second cycle starts after a blank.
    The fact is playing piano, I've some short space to put my hand on the iPad so I really want to reduce the gesture. My dream could be to tap one, two, three cycles that will be chained automatically.

    "induces the input mic is off": trying to rephrase. Putting the iPad close to the piano generates noise because the iPad records and sounds the piano keys hits or any movement. I was wondering how to turn the input mic off.

    Probably I am deviating the tool from its initiate function. But the interface is exactly what I need : large and simple buttons allowing quick taps.

    PS: I guess you spent lot of time to answer the same questions. You not start a kind of wiki documentation. I'll be happy to contribute...
  • Hmm, that's a very good point! I'm thinking that maybe I should change that behaviour so that if you tap a track to count-in, while another track is counting-out, then the counting-in tracks start at the same time the counting-out track stops, not in their own cycle time. No one wants silence in between!

    At some point I'm thinking about adding 'groups' for tracks - this might assist you, although I'd highly recommend picking up a foot pedal so you can control Loopy without using your hands at all.

    You can disable mic input from session recordings in Settings ("Record live audio").

    That's a very interesting idea about adding a wiki! I do plan to make more documentation soon, but I'm so busy working on Loopy updates and Audiobus, it's hard to find the time.
  • Synchronized cycles: Yes, this my dream !
    Foot pedal: I'll have a look at that. Any recommendation?
    "Record live audio": I get it with "Live playthrough" off, and "Record live audio" off.
    Thanks so much.
  • Hmm, let me get this straight: You're saying your iPad makes noise (out loud, out the speaker) when you put it close to the piano? What kind of noise are we talking about? What's your setup?
  • Michael,
    Everything is ok now thanks to the "Record Live Audio" off.
    Waiting for a new release with the cycle synchro, I'll record cycle having the same length.
    cu
  • edited November 2012

    Hello Michael,
    I downloaded the lastest release of loopy seeing lot of great new features.
    I read something about queuing the recording.
    Still with my previous request, do you think queuing the playing could be implemented. Today the recording queuing gesture is to slip the finger from on tap to another, but doing the same while playing merge the source to the target.
    What do you think?

  • "At some point I'm thinking about adding 'groups' for tracks - this might assist you, although I'd highly recommend picking up a foot pedal so you can control Loopy without using your hands at all."

    Yes, yes , yes !!! :)

  • I'm still thinking about this, @Ernadote - if I can find a nice way to do it, I'll consider it, although at the moment I haven't found a way that isn't going to add clutter.

  • edited November 2012

    Michael, crony,
    Thanks for answering.

    I am considering purchasing a pedal but the free-hands issue is a secondary issue.

    Please consider the two followings images that probably better explain my concern:

    1 - Current State:

    image

    2 - A proposal:

    image

    My vision (with no technical problem to solve :-) ):
    The common situation is that the rhythm is on a 4-bars track.
    Some turnarounds use only 1 or 2 bars.
    While a turnaround track is playing, the rhythm goes on and it won't begin when the turnaround track ends.

    My proposal is to use a 2-fingers slip gesture from a track B to a track A that means:
    When B ends, start A
    Now, the 2 fingers tap start the recording but maybe you can consider that slipping is another command.

    What do you think?

  • edited November 2012

    Oh, lovely! Nice mockups!

    I'm not hugely fond of a drag gesture for that purpose, because I think it confuses the semantics of the drag a bit (actually, I've been planning on making a 2-finger drag do a merge as well, and encouraging use of that instead of the 1-finger drag because 2 fingers is harder to confuse with other gestures like volume/clear), but I do like the rest.

    If we can come up with an interaction that feels right, though, I'm all for it.

    You know... maybe there's a way to make the existing interaction work, with some logic to just Do The Right Thing.

    If our Turnaround track is playing and you tap it to make it count out (so it stops once it reaches the end), then you tap the Drums track to make it count in.. maybe Loopy can assume that the Right Thing is to start the Drums track at the beginning when the Turnaround track ends.

    Can you (or anyone else, for that matter) think of any reason that might not be the case?

    And even if that's not the right thing to do, maybe the first tap on a muted track to count in does that, and the second tap starts a count-in synced to the track's natural length?

  • I confess this is a tricky situation because you might have parallel and queued tracks in the same time.
    So, if the gesture does not integrate both the tracks that must be queued, you can have problem determining whether the tracks must be played together or queued.
    What I mean is that your proposal consists of two separate gesture so I think misunderstanding can occur.

    Now, if I go on with your idea, I tried to tap both the tracks with two fingers (one finger for each track) simultaneously. This works like if I tap one track then the other track.

    What do you think if two tracks tapped simultaneously (within a specified short time) are queued if one of these tracks is playing while the other is counting in?

    image

    PS: I am quite sure solving this issue will open a new group of users.

  • True - and I thought of one more problem. What if your 4-bar drums track goes along with 3 other 4-bar tracks that all need to be synced together? The above would cause the drum track to be offset by a bar, and would then be out of time with the rest of the session.

    Perhaps this needs to actually restart the entire session after the count-out, so everything's back at the start when the count-in fires. What we're talking about here is inserting an extra bar into the timeline, which means we need to reflect the change globally.

    I don't mind the simultaneous tap gesture, although it could get tricky if you want to count-in more than just the one track.

    I'd say this is way too niche to actually bring in users, but that's not really my priority with this stuff, so I wouldn't worry about it =)

  • Damned! You're right!
    It's so hard to keep it simple!

    Looking at the possible iPad gesture, it's seems all of them are already used.

    What about extending the track circle?
    An additional sync button is available for each track so that the tapping on this button starts the track at the next ending event.
    This could solve the multiple synchronization issue you raised.
    Obviously, this makes the (so nice) look&feel heavier...

    image

    An additional button allows the synchronization mode.

  • Oh, nope, I'm definitely never going to add more UI - that way lies button hell =)

  • Hello There !

    If I understand well, the problem might be solved with a group system of loops as I've described in an other post.
    With my proposal, the groups created has a "loop uncutted mode" which means you may choose a track to be the scale for this pattern.

    See the screenshot.
    Obviously, all tracks have been recorded, or will be recorded on the same tempo.

    In this example, an independent track is already playing.(top left)
    While tapping on the scale loop of group 1,( the keyboard one) the 3 tracks of group 1 starts playing sync with the independant track (on top, after the end of the cycle of independant track).
    The loop of group 1, is 1 bar long based. It's the scale used if you want to chain between 2 groups, but other tracks may have any bars they want, they just looping on a different time.

    Tapping on the track of group that have the scale setuped (the drums, down left )will make the red borders of all tracks of group 2 flashing, indicating they will play after the end of cycle of synth track of group 1. So after 1 bar, the 3 tracks of group 1 muting, and the 3 tracks of group 3 starts to play.

    What do you think ?

    Someone suggested a wiki, which is a really good idea, I would help for a french version as well, as it could become more and more complex.

    Btw I have received my CCK yesterday, and I'll get my Alesis IO4 tomorrow, so pluged with my FCB1010 I'll be testing further my use cases...

  • This could be an answer even though you are answering two questions in one: chaining and grouping.

    Regarding the chaining part, you assume there is one track dedicated to set the scale. What does that really means?
    The grouping mode solves the problem of the simultaneous triggering. But I am still confused with the way the groups are chained against some parallel playing. Do you assume groups cannot be played together?

    I like the idea of the centered icon inside the track. It is true that having loaded a session, there is no clue to remember what tracks match?

    Dom

  • One track of the group should be a kind of flag, indicating how many bars is the lenght of the group.
    It just tells "we have a track of 4 bars in this group, the other tracks can be longer than 4 bars, but if you chain to an other group, it will take 4 bars till it starts the next choosen group"
    Of course if you have a 8 bars track in the previous group, it will be cutted in the middle, but assuming that 8 bars should be a more advanced drum pattern for instance, it doesn't really maters if it's cutted. What's important is the structure of your patterns (verse 1:repeated 4 times, chorus repeated twice, then goes back to verse 1 4 times, then coda...)

    In this scenario, groups can't be played together, absolutely. You still have "normal" tracks for playing in parallel.

    The icon is indeed helpfull, as the waveform might not be clear enough sometimes.
    I'm also wondering if the thickness of the waveform should be lighter / resized dynamically if you select an icon, or adding looping options. In this case, it could stay very simple and clear for simple use, and more advanced for more advanced use, keeping the same ergonomic philosophy of the app.

    Nico

  • (Sorry guys - I'm still following this, just got my hands - and brain - full with some Loopy debugging and Audiobus development. I'll catch up!)

  • Hello Michael,

    I have a similar issue to this. hopefully you can help.

    I am part of a two man band (drummer and bassist). We play live all the time. When we are playing we like to change the order of the parts, ex. add 3 more chorus at the end or add a solo. We use loopy to add a guitar and a keyboard as fill instruments.

    the problem that we have is that some parts of the song are not the same measures, and chaining them becomes impossible.

    ideally I would like to have a loop count out, and have another play exactly after that one ends. no matter what length it is.

    this would help us a lot.
    if you have already done something that can help please leave instructions....

    thank you in advance!!!!!

    David

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